Phrasing.

Discussion in 'Music Theory, Lessons & Techniques' started by Dusty201087, Sep 6, 2009.

  1. Dusty201087

    Dusty201087 Kenyon class of 2014

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    Okay, so I honestly do get a lot of theory, but I just up front don't know how to phrase shit. I know enough that I can twiddle around a bit and impress people who can't/barely can play guitar, but when I'm in front of other guitarists, I usually just take the back seat and watch because I know what I make up just sounds like notes of a scale being mashed.

    Could anyone point me to some sort of in depth phrasing guide/explanation? Please and thanks :yesway:
     
  2. ShadyDavey

    ShadyDavey 7ibrarian

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    I can't even do it, let alone explain it [​IMG]

    Ok ok, it's the art of making a section of music have sense on it's own - so it's a huge amalgam of figures, melodies, motifs, techniques, cells. rhythm and all the other building blocks of music all coming together to make a coherent statement. The most usual analogy is that phrasing is essentially like writing a sentance, a paragraph or a story and one of the better ways to practice it is to play as if you were talking/singing the line...

    For what it's worth I definately thing it's perhaps the most under-developed skill for guitarists but aside from sheer practice and experimentation over suitable backing tracks or (better yet) with actual musicians I can't really give you much advice about how to develop your own voice.
     
  3. Mr. Big Noodles

    Mr. Big Noodles Theory God

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    Be mindful of measures and cadences, and you'll be off to a good start. It also helps to know things like parallel periods (a very common phrase form) and contrasting periods. If you can get that down, taking phrasing to the next step should be a breeze.
     
  4. distressed_romeo

    distressed_romeo F'king ............ Forum MVP

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    Check out Scott Henderson's DVD, as there's a huge amount of information about developing phrasing in there. Larry Carlton's first one is also good for this, but isn't quite as detailed. Although they're both fusion guys, this stuff is applicable to pretty much any style.
     
  5. ShadyDavey

    ShadyDavey 7ibrarian

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    Yah, good point. The first SH video is a phrasing goldmine for certain :agreed:
     
  6. Dusty201087

    Dusty201087 Kenyon class of 2014

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    I'm assuming you're talking about the one titled Jazz Rock Mastery, correct? Sorry if this is dumb, I just don't want to go and buy the wrong one, but JRM is the only one I can seemingly find anyway :lol:
     
  7. distressed_romeo

    distressed_romeo F'king ............ Forum MVP

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    That's the one! The first part is more about note-choice, and developing jazz lines, but the second is just about phrasing.:)
     
  8. Cadavuh

    Cadavuh Bounce The ....

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    Also buying a looping pedal will do wonders for you:yesway:
     
  9. Dusty201087

    Dusty201087 Kenyon class of 2014

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    Are there two separate DVD's or is it just one with two sections? Because it wouldn't hurt for me to learn a bit about jazz lines seeing as I'm in a jazz band :lol:

    What would you recommend? I've never really been much of an effects guy, I just like to get a good amp + guitar and go :shred: the good part about it is that it's simple as hell, the bad part is when it comes to things like pedals and rack units I know absolutely nothing :ugh:
     
  10. jufob

    jufob Banned

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    So you know theory so then you know music is an abstract concept that had to be captured and tamed so it could be communicated to students who learn by monotonous disciplined practice. Don't forget this just get off your frontal lobe and put in the back somewhere. Your fingers know where to go on the fretboard and you don't have to stay within the rules, guidelines, and boundaries you were taught. Tell yourself, "I can phrase" and your mind will eventually comply. Just stretch and breathe, you are the music.
     
  11. Dusty201087

    Dusty201087 Kenyon class of 2014

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    I completely agree with you on this particular and somewhat philosophical thought, but in order for me to do this I think I would have to know what phrasing is.
     
  12. Scar Symmetry

    Scar Symmetry Ex Whiny Bitch

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    the thing to remember with phrasing is simple:

    phrase your notes like you would with words.

    when you construct a sentence it has to make sense and all the words have to fit together to make one cohesive and effective sentence, right?

    well, if you add too many words or use words that don't make sense, your sentence becomes cluttered and possibly nonsensical, literally apply this to your lead work.

    hope this helps :yesway:
     
  13. Cadavuh

    Cadavuh Bounce The ....

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    Boss RC-2. Loopers are kind of expensive compared to other pedals. I got my RC-2 like $170. Just record a backing riff and go! Ill record a riff and do improv over it for like 20 minute or so...Figure out some ideas then repeat with a new riff or one I was practicing over before. Its great for writing melodies and figuring out rythm riffs to melodies too.
     
  14. Dusty201087

    Dusty201087 Kenyon class of 2014

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    Okay, I'll look into one. I guess I knew what loopers where but I never thought of a reason to have one. You make a good point though, thanks man :hbang:

    Actually yeah I think that helps a lot dude, seriously. :yesway::yesway::yesway: I know music is like another language but I never thought to write like I speak... Hmmm... I'm definitely going to go play guitar now :shred:
     
  15. All_¥our_Bass

    All_¥our_Bass Deathly Chuuni

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    Well I think this explains my sometimes very alien take on phrasing, esp. on leads and solos.

    If I were to phrase like I talk-I like to use big words, and I don't care if it is elegant or not, as long as it is correctly used, I will use a long complex explanation where a short one would suffice and I can be rather awkward talking to girls or people I am not familiar with.

    About the not making sense thing, I don't really care as long as it sounds cool.

    I know, I'm weird.
     
  16. Ryan-ZenGtr-

    Ryan-ZenGtr- SS.org Regular

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    The concept of "Phrasing" to me conjures up the expression "Good taste".

    Saying the most with the least is what I aim for, then once I've worked out what that sounds like over a progression / song, I know I'll be fine for when it comes to leaving chunks of bloody flesh in an oozing pool across my fretboard when improvising over that tune live.

    I watched the Scott Henderson DVD on soloing, in which he is wearing an afro, a pink shirt, playing a purple guitar with GM midi in front of a Mac and a blue background. My impression; the wild meanderings of a schizophrenic narccisist.

    His best contribution was this: "Keeping the original thought... Phrases are like sentences, like Peter had a girlfriend..." "musical sentences are like your vocabulary... and you have to learn your vocabulary before you can speak..." etc. etc. etc. watch the DVD, it's quite odd.

    Henderson then displays his work with his band Tribal Tech which displays his abilities of gurning and bogarting the solo's.

    Personally, not a fan, but no offense intended to the man or those that enjoy his work, just being honest.

    Petrucci's DVD or Shawn Lane's REH DVD's worked very well for me as they are more practical and offer, to my ears, more satisfying examples of good taste, despite technical mastery offering the temptation to melt faces, when playing their own original music.

    I found that listening to "out there" music helped me train my ear to recognise more unusual or sophisticated tonalities over a progression. But the test, and the best thing about music being you KNOW when it's right, is always "Can you hum it?". Oh, don't forget, good vibrato (emotive nuances) is king!
     

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