opinions on the Evertune bridge

Discussion in 'Gear & Equipment' started by sleewell, Nov 11, 2019.

  1. Dumple Stilzkin

    Dumple Stilzkin SS.org Regular

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    Never owned one. I suppose I’m on the fence, it’s one of those things where I think you’d have to try it out to see if it’s advantageous to you. Based on what I’ve read, I will be seeking them out to test drive.
     
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  2. BearOnGuitar

    BearOnGuitar SS.org Regular

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    Hi guys, Herbert Smelik from EverTune here, I'm the brand manager of the company. We all greatly appreciate the interest in our bridges and having people talk about it. Since I do easily pick up on the improved intonation, which in my limited understanding of the bridge comes about a result of the saddles balancing out finger pressure which would usually pull notes sharp, especially the higher you get up the neck. So to provide the most accurate information, especially when it also comes to some people claiming that our product would actually worsen or sacrifice intonation for the benefit of tuning stability, I have forwarded the conversation to our CEO Cosmos Lyles directly so that I could get an answer straight from the source. I copy his response below and hope that our interaction on this forum, in regards to our products, is something that is appreciated.

    "Yes I think enough people are versed in it to debate amongst themselves.

    But for the record, it does improve intonation because straight frets are, for the most part, perfectly aligned to have perfect intonation. One writer was right that the only three variables involved in the frequency a string plays are length, mass and tension.

    So the frets measure the perfect length, but the tension of a string always varies with a fixed bridge because of string height and finger pressure. EverTune has perfect intonation on every fret because length AND tension stay constant.

    It should be noted that the mass of a string can vary. I've seen some strings that are slightly different thicknesses along the length, as such when I went to the higher frets, the strings would always be sharp or flat, based on the mass of the string near the ball being less or more than the mass of the string near the nut. If strings are perfectly even thickness (and therefore uniform mass) along the whole length, then with EverTune the guitar will have perfect intonation everywhere.

    I would question the person who says intonation is only perfect on the 0 and 12th fret position.

    And if we are defining each note on the logarithmic scale, ie each semitone is 2^(1/12) higher in frequency than the last, then straight frets are the only way to achieve perfect intonation.

    Lastly about the string length changing, the EverTune is still much better intonated in this case. The string length only changes when you would have been out of tune. So for example, the tensions of the strings of our default string set from the daddario website are:

    KPL010 E 0.0100 in 16.220 lbs
    KPL013 B 0.0130 15.390 lbs
    KPL017 G 0.0170 16.580 lbs
    NW026 D 0.0260 18.380 lbs
    NW036 A 0.0360 19.040 lbs
    NW046 E 0.0460 16.910 lbs

    The spring rate of the strings are (Modulus of elasticity for steel) * (cross sectional area of string) / length of string. So for a high E string on a 25.5 inch scale guitar, in English units this is 29000000 * 0.005^2 * pi() / 25.5 = 89 pounds per inch. Since 16.22 pounds is in tune, the string stretches 16.2 / 89 = 0.18 inches (4.6mm) to get from its relaxed state to in tune. If the string is WAY out of tune, let's say 50 cents out of tune (half a semi tone), then it looses 16.22 * 2^(0.5/6) = 0.96 pounds of tension. This means it increases in length by 0.96/89 = 0.01 inches or 1/4mm. Obviously a string that far out of tune on a regular guitar has HORRIBLE intonation everywhere on the neck by definition, it's COMPLETELY out of tune everywhere. But with evertune, the saddle rocks back 0.01 inches. So let's see what that does to the intonation. Each fret is 2^(1/12) closer to the saddle than the last. So the nut is 25.5 inches from the saddle, the first fret is 25.5*2^(-1/12) = 24.06 inches from the saddle ideally. In our example it is 24.06+0.01 = 24.07 inches from the saddle. So the difference in tune of that fret when the string is lengthened by that amount is 600*log base 2(24.07/24.06) = 0.35 cents. I can only hear things that are 5 - 10 cents off, a person with perfect perfect pitch may be able to hear 2 - 3 cents off. This is LESS THAN ONE CENT out of intonation with EverTune. With a regular bridge it would be 50 CENTS OUT OF INTONATION by being out of tune.

    Now lets go to the highest fret, where the intonation would be the most off because of the string lengthening. The 21st fret would be 25.5*2^(-21/12) = 7.58 inches from the saddle ideally. When the saddle is rocked back 0.01 inches, the length is 7.59. So the difference in pitch is 600* log base 2(7.59/7.58)=1.1 cents! It's about 1 cent different on the highest fret of the stretchiest string with EverTune. For the .017 string the highest fret will be 0.4 cents different. So yes, audibly to humans, the intonation of an evertune bridge using strings with uniform mass along the length is perfect. Even when the saddle moves. This is because the saddle moves such a tiny amount to compensate for what would have been a HUGE amount of detuning with a regular bridge.

    If frets are properly laid out and the string has uniform mass and constant tension (ie evertune) then if the intonation is perfect on ANY two frets then it is, by definition, perfect on all the others. We use the 0 and 12th fret for convenience.

    Why intonation would have to be adjusted at all is a good question. Especially with EverTune which should deliver the same pressure regardless of nut height and string thickness. Hard to find science of this online (surprisingly hard to find science of much about musical instruments online). My guess on this, and the guess of some others I have spoken to is that the 'length' variable we are using is more complex than we think. So that what defines the 'length' of a string is a bit different from the length measured from end of nut to tip of saddle. I assume the 'length' is defined as the straight portion of the string that resonates between the nut and saddle. This straight portion will always be less than the distance from the nut to the saddle because the string bends as it goes over the saddle, so some of that bent length is past the saddle. This would explain why thicker strings intonate farther back, because they conform less easily to the saddle shape and therefore the bend the saddle produces extends farther beyond the saddle string contact point. It would also explain why down tuned strings intonate farther back, because the lower tension would also conform less easily to the saddle shape (ie have a more gradual bend) and therefore the bent section would extend farther past the saddle making the actual straight section shorter and therefore requiring the saddle to move back to compensate. This is just a guess. It would be interesting if someone actual could test and prove this.

    Cosmos"
     
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  3. c7spheres

    c7spheres GuitArtist

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    Thanks for this. I get it now. I can finally understand what this is about. Put this info up on your website if it's not already there. Thanks.
     
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  4. Soya

    Soya Poor person

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    Your CEO's name is Cosmos? That's pretty bitchin.
     
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  5. Pat

    Pat SS.org Regular

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    Do you think EverTune will ever branch out into floating bridges? Maybe something that takes out the need to balance spring tension with string tension, so you don't have to adjust the claw screws in the back? Or something which ensures the bridge always returns to zero?
     
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  6. Dumple Stilzkin

    Dumple Stilzkin SS.org Regular

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    After that explanation I’m even more interested. I would love to see the bridge also in a tremolo system.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  7. GunpointMetal

    GunpointMetal SS.org Regular

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    I know these things take a lot of wood out of the guitar for installation, but I wonder if a single-string saddle would be possible to allow for fan-fret guitars to have that on each string.
     
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  8. BearOnGuitar

    BearOnGuitar SS.org Regular

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    Thanks guys! Since often the EverTune is still not very well understood I want to add that besides the benefits of the tuning stability and improved intonation, one of the features why many people especially in more extreme music styles love the EverTune is because it can prevent the strings from going sharp with heavy picking, or in other terms it can keep both the attack and sustain part of a note in perfect tuning without the temporary pitch drift, which usually becomes even more of an issue the lower you go in tuning and the thicker the strings become. It further also allows for lighter gauges to be used at the same time, to retain the clarity of thinner gauges with low tunings.

    Right now we are focused on finishing our bass bridge which is in the final prototype stage and we're AIMING to release our 2nd generation guitar bridges approximately a year after the bass bridge release. Basically the new bass bridge is going to be our first 2nd generation product and will be providing the basis for the 2nd gen guitar bridges, allowing for much quicker development of the new guitar bridges. We're trying to include a trem version with the launch of the 2nd gen guitar bridges if we can work it out in time, having that said with how many people are anxiously waiting for it we need to ensure that we create the very best trem bridge that we can develop. All 2nd gen products will feature improvements over our current generation products based on the feedback we have received over the years.

    Fanned fret and a piezo options are definitely planned for the future with the 2nd gen bridges and are definitely possible.
     
  9. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    The irony of the Evertune trem, will be that the function won't actually change, and it'll make it so you can whammy your nuts off, and it will stay the same pitch. Ha!
     
  10. BearOnGuitar

    BearOnGuitar SS.org Regular

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    I think what he meant is that the trem will not change pitch at all and have people freak out as they go wild with it. It already happens with our fixed bridges as sometimes people mess with them in stores and leave them so they can't bend, or they are just set up weird, so when someone tries it they immediately dislike it as it will cancel out all their string bends, thinking that is what the EverTune is all about. It's the stuff of my nightmares haha.
     
  11. Pat

    Pat SS.org Regular

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    That's awesome - I'd imagine the trem would be really popular and save a lot of hassle for people
     
  12. sharedEQ

    sharedEQ SS.org Regular

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    What you could do with v2 of the evertune is to design a "window" that displays a different color depending on which zone the mechanism is in. That way if you look at the guitar you could see how each string was set.

    I think the comment about the evertune trem was a joke.
     
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  13. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    True Temperament, Evertune, and Buzz Feiten Tuning are probably three of the most misunderstood guitar novelties ever made. They are also pretty nifty, if you understand the general premise of each.

    For me, the potential barriers for both ET and TT is the level or surgery involved in installation, and I don't see there ever being a way around that. I have some really nice guitars that I've owned and set up myself for years, so, installing a gadget to solve a problem with which I really don't stuggle and that requires me to saw a giant hole in my prized possession is a non-starter.
     
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  14. BearOnGuitar

    BearOnGuitar SS.org Regular

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    We appreciate it and I totally got that it was meant as a joke! We have received this as well as some other very similar suggestions before, that's all I can say.


    The size of our route is possibly the single biggest aspect about our products that we're being criticized for, with many people fearing that it would wreck their tone when in fact any tonal impact our bridges have is fairly minimal, yet we also understand that tone is a very subjective topic. All I can say here at this point in time is that we are aware about it and that we're doing our best to improve upon future products.
     
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  15. Lemonbaby

    Lemonbaby SS.org Regular

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    Evertune is great if you like playing floppy strings and sustain isn't your primary concern...
     
  16. sleewell

    sleewell SS.org Regular

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    i don't experience either of those
     
  17. Lemonbaby

    Lemonbaby SS.org Regular

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    I actually mentioned that as an advantage: if you prefer a softer string setup, the Evertune will avoid the good old pitch envelope in the attack phase...
     
  18. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    For me, tone isn't the issue.

    But your appearance here and your knowledge and professionalism certainly makes a good impression.
     
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  19. FatChunt

    FatChunt New Member

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    I will now buy your guitar.
    I normally play a PRS and honestly i don't know much about guitar specs, I've always considered the guitar to be the least important part of playing guitar.. but i do dislike tuning after every couple of takes when i'm recording.

    My main worry is that subtle vibrato would be impossible, but i suppose if you get the zone3 near perfect it will work?
     
  20. Meeotch

    Meeotch SS.org Regular

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    Say what? :lol: And welcome to the board.

    IMO subtle vibrato is the thing you compromise most on with the Evertune bridge. Basically, the closer you are to being dead nuts on the threshold of zone 2/3, the better it will be. But again, as you approach this threshold you are minimizing the effects of the Evertune system.

    Like I said earlier, you can choose to set your guitar up in tune within zone 3 and the guitar will function just like a hardtail, with all of the immediacy but none of the gains the Evertune can offer.
     

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