Opeth - In Cauda Venenum (New Album 2019)

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by Sammy J, May 24, 2019.

  1. KailM

    KailM SS.org Regular

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    Nah, I meant Pale Communion. Pale Folklore is an Agalloch album (which you should check out if you haven't -- it's an all-time great). My brain was thinking one thing while my fingers typed another...
     
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  2. Zalbu

    Zalbu More time than skill

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    Bands have zero obligation to their fans other than following up on what they put their own words on, like showing up to shows on time and putting in a baseline level of effort. It's not like big bands chose to become popular, they play music for their own sake and if people don't like the new direction a band is going in, then don't go to their shows or listen to their music. The people who do enjoy the music will keep listening to the music and going to the shows.

    Also, the "it will piss off older fans" is a weird angle to take as if they're not going to win new fans from people who aren't into death metal with growled vocals but are into 70's influenced prog rock. Is it more acceptable to piss off them by going back to the music they made over 10 years ago?
     
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  3. KailM

    KailM SS.org Regular

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    Really, zero obligation? I would argue that bands have very little obligation to their fans, but not zero. As for a theoretical percentage, I don't know. I also think it depends how established they are as well. By the time Opeth put out Heritage, they were very established with a pretty huge fanbase. Up until that album, all of their work was similar/in the same vein, yet pleasantly diverse. Everyone has their favorites and not-so-favorites out of that era, but I doubt many fans of their older sound would say anything pre-Heritage "sucks" or anything like that. Even Watershed holds up to their older material, IMO, though it was starting to shift with songs like Burden.

    Then Heritage came along and was completely a 180 from their earlier work. I mean, explore; innovate, but once you're known for a certain type of sound, I'd say you're somewhat limited as a band up to a certain point. If you go too far "out there" -- and that hasn't been a precedent your band set from the beginning, then you're asking your fans a lot to stay on board. Also, who is responsible for keeping a band like Opeth going and producing more music?

    Now, certain bands have always released very different albums from one to the next -- these types of bands, IMO, are a lot more free to radically change their sound.

    I can see both sides of the coin. In a recent interview, Michael said he no longer considers "heavy" music to be downtuned guitars, loads of distortion; brutal vocals -- but rather he strives to make his subject matter heavy. In a nutshell, I can see his point, but it sort of seems like he's writing off bands that still do that -- and in that regard, I strongly disagree with his stance.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again; I couldn't care less if Michael does death metal vocals anymore. IMO, some of the best moments from earlier Opeth were moments with clean singing. The orchestration and instrumentation on Heritage and forward are where I get completely bored. It's just trying way too hard to be "prog" -- but they were fine the way they were before. I grew up listening to 60s, 70s, and 80s prog -- when I want to listen to prog, I go back to that material. Opeth should have stuck to what they were good at; atmospheric, progressive METAL.

    Just my $.02.

    I'm still holding out for this record though. That latest song didn't suck.
     
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  4. Zalbu

    Zalbu More time than skill

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    Yup, which is what I said as well, but you didn't even finish reading the sentence before deciding to respond :scratch:
     
  5. KailM

    KailM SS.org Regular

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    I read your post in full, twice; didn’t catch that meaning out of it. Anyway, not meaning to start an argument. Cheers.
     
  6. Exchanger

    Exchanger SS.org Regular

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    Jeesh...it's ok not to like a band anymore, but y'all act like they were double agents at the height of the Cold War.
     
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  7. chopeth

    chopeth SS.org Regular

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    All this has to do with the intense and seriously we metalheads take our favourite bands and the music they put out. Some people just hate what their idols become some others just left the boat and (almost) forget that the band even exist. It is normal. Best thing is to jump to something different or more fitting to what you like, not thinking twice too much and avoiding feeling betrayed as much as possible. After all, they do what they want with their bands, even when we feel the change is qualitatively to the worse.

    Pop and mainstream addicts usually don't give a shit about this, and have lesser problems in respect to their idols' integrity and coherence.
     
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  8. Lorcan Ward

    Lorcan Ward 7slinger

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    To me a band and music is so much more than just that. It’s their image, the style of music they’ve grown and nurtured, the atmosphere and emotions they portray, the meaning behind what they’re playing, in metal this is where your genre and styles can really dictate that direction, album artwork, video style, song titles/lyrics etc etc. Opeths earlier musical style was able to paint these incredible pictures, the dark eerie atmosphere they were able to portray is musical(and art) perfection. The complete 180 into 70s prog purposely written to not sound like opeth was a very odd move. As much as in flames, dimmu Borgir, bodom etc modernised or changed things up it’s still unmistakenly them.

    I’ve always been able to brush of their change before, I get why he continued under opeth for business reasons but it just really bugged me seeing 90%+ of comments wishing they’d go back to their old style and how anytime I mention them to people eyes roll and they’ve nothing positive to say anymore. No artist has to keep playing a certain style but there’s a point where everything will start to twist and you’ll change people’s view on everything your band has done.

    Devin had to fight for every inch to get to where he is. He’s widely praised now and his fans love how many genres his music crosses but his early albums were not welcomed warmly, some were heavily criticised at the time of release and that was a separate project to strapping young lad, he knew he had to release those under a different name and ended SYL when he felt he wasn’t in the mind frame to persue that direction of music anymore and didn’t want to release an album that wasn’t SYL’s style. It’s just like my example of chuck Death and control denied, forming a new band to peruse a new musical direction. exact same thing with Isahn and how he perused new musical outlets.
     
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  9. Exchanger

    Exchanger SS.org Regular

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    It makes a lot of sense if it's a side project with a different crew, but Opeth didn't change line-up when they changed style afaik (just switched keyboardist after Heritage). It would be weird to come and say "yeah we're the same people but we gonna change our band name".
     
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  10. Zalbu

    Zalbu More time than skill

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    Yup, which makes the complaints of how Mikael should just make a solo project even weirder. It's not like the other members in the band are complaining about the change in styles and they aren't exactly being forced at gunpoint to play the music. They could've pulled a HAARP Machine and left the band and let Micke do his prog wankery on his own, but they aren't.
     
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  11. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I'd argue that's on you. You've put that weight on the band yourself. Again, there's valid points being made from a marketing point of view, but people are taking it personally in a way that makes no sense to me. A band is not responsible for the personal significance that a fan might grant to their output.

    To my ears, Opeth still sounds like Opeth. I always listened to them for the clean bits, the contrast between the heavy and not, the particular modes or patterns that they write in, etc. There's still lots of Opeth DNA in their new material. Sure, the growls are gone, the guitars have a different texture, and there's a lot of focus on keys and things now, but I still hear similar patterns.

    What does it matter what others are saying/thinking? Can you not just enjoy a band on your own terms? There's no rule that says if your friends don't like something then you must also dislike it.
     
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  12. jruivo26

    jruivo26 SS.org Regular

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    I gave up on Opeth after Heritage (incredibly disappointing album). Pale Communion had SOME cool moments, but Sorceress and this new single are just straight up boring and uninspired.
    I'll forever remember MAYH/Still Life/BWP/Deliverance/Damnation as some of my life's pivotal albums. But I just can't stand "new Opeth".
     
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  13. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    They can do what they want and they don't owe anyone anything, I don't care if they keep the same band name, etc. Just, I really wonder how pursuing this path is working out for them. Every time I see any discussion of Opeth, it's always a vast majority of people saying how much they don't like anything post Watershed, saying this is more boring stuff (or maybe "well at least it's better than the last"), and a tremendous lack of enthusiasm for the material or seeing the band live. The band's fanbase MUST have contracted severely, right? Or are there legions of new Opeth fans who got into them with the new stuff that are replacing all of us who jumped ship? If so, why do they seem to have zero visibility on social media/forums? Opeth was really, really popular by extreme metal standards back in the GR days.
     
  14. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I mean, this is the internet. Vocal minorities everywhere. If you've got nothing to complain about, many won't say anything at all.
     
  15. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    While true with some things, this is BS with this case. Most band threads here are exclusively positive. If people were excited about this material they'd say so. Even like, the Metallica threads are loaded with people lining up to say how much they like St Anger songs or are going to see them live, etc.
     
  16. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    People are trying to say they still like Opeth here too. :)
     
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  17. brector

    brector SS.org Regular

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    I see people crapping on bands as much as they praise them in a lot of the band threads on SSO
     
  18. Musiscience

    Musiscience Hail the Ibbyborn!

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    This new song is great. Change my mind.
     
  19. KailM

    KailM SS.org Regular

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    It’s not bad, I agree. I hope it’s the worst song on the album.
     
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  20. Musiscience

    Musiscience Hail the Ibbyborn!

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    It's the first time since watershed that I'm excited for an Opeth album.
     
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