Oh crap..BUGERA is trying to get in on the TRIPLE RECTO and MARK market

Discussion in 'Gear & Equipment' started by DrakkarTyrannis, Mar 23, 2010.

  1. Mop

    Mop SS.org Regular

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    Please don't accuse me of making false assumptions, I seriously looked into bugera amps and ran a mile. I saved for a couple more months and bought a 2nd hand 6505 which I had zero issues with and recently sold for the same price I got it for over a year previous. If I got the bugera I'm willing to bet I'd have had to take it back and even if I didn't I'd still be out of pocket when I sold it (if anyone would buy it off me that is).

    There's a fair bit of price difference in quality vs. shit components, especially the hardware. Not to mention the difference in building something to last with skilled labour vs. whatever trained monkeys bugera use roll stuff out as cheaply as possible. Do you seriously think companies like mesa charge more just for the name? I'm not suggesting it makes up the whole difference in price, but from what I've seen bugera's components and construction methods in general are not on par with the likes of mesa.

    I'll explain my "false assumptions" using a couple of pics, see if you can guess which is the boogie and which is the bugera.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    You might notice one has pathetic little pots mounted on a pcb with plastic extensions on them out to the knobs. One has quality pots fixed to the chassis and wired directly. Perhaps you might also notice that tube sockets, jacks and everything else on one is fixed to a pcb, while on the other they are chassis mounted and wired in the more traditional (typically longer lasting) manner. In addition to the superior hardware and construction, I'd put money on the board components being higher quality on one than the other, although it is difficult to see from these small photos.
    Which do you think will last longer/be more reliable? Which do you think is more easily serviceable if something should wear out in a few years time (if it even lasts that long)? Which do you think cost significantly more to produce?

    Sorry for the long post but that's all I've got to say here, clearly I disagree with some of you but I'm basing my opinions on what I've found in my previous research, not made up facts. If you think the above is bullshit that's fine, you can have your opinion and I'll have mine, it'd be boring if we all though the same thing :)
     
  2. cow 7 sig

    cow 7 sig AU director / RHLC ©

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    move to NZ dont think so:fawk:
    new mesas in AUST=
    Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier Head-$3999.00
    MESA BOOGIE TRIPLE RECTIFIER HEAD-$4999.00
    Mesa/Boogie Road King II Head-$6699.00
    MESA/BOOGIE SOLO 50 HEAD-$3495.00
    Mesa Boogie Mark Five Head-$5295.00
    Mesa Boogie Rectoverb Combo-$3449.00
    Mesa Boogie Recto STD Slant Cab-$2085.00
    that is the updated price list here in AUST.
    the second hand market is not much better unless you are buying from a friend.even ebay AUST there still expensive.
    and IF you find an older 2 channel dual or tripple for sale in AUST expect to pay even more.
    i dont have up to date prices on peavey but i assure you there not that much better in price.
    oh have you actually played any bugeras by chance?
     
  3. Daemoniac

    Daemoniac Rivethead Magnate. Contributor

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    ^ :yesway: but :noway: It's fucking horrible trying to get any Mesa gear here in Aus... It's cheaper to buy one in the states, ship it here, then buy a step-down transformer than to just get one in a store.

    It is the suck.
     
  4. Mop

    Mop SS.org Regular

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    I played the 5150 clone just over a year ago. At the volume they let you play in the shop it sounded pretty similar to the 6505 they had, that's why I looked into the build quality (thinking it was too good to be true). 6505's are ridiculous here too @ over 3k NZD but they are a pretty good price 2nd hand. The chain that does mesa amps in NZ is doing a really good job of driving prices down and trying to get in line with the states. I can't understand why you pay more in oz, it's closer to the origin shipping-wise. Greedy distributor maybe?
     
  5. Daemoniac

    Daemoniac Rivethead Magnate. Contributor

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    I don't know aye, but it's so fucked up :noway:

    Sad thing is that it's really not that out of line with other boutique amps... A Diezel Herbert (depending on where you get it) will set you back between $6,500 and $8,000AUD, a Bogner over $5,500... Even the decent Hughes & Kettner stuff will set you back over $5k (with some of the higher end stuff getting over $6k).

    I know there's a difference in the dollar, but even so it's just ridiculous :noway:
     
  6. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    You guys are really ass fucked by the distributors.
     
  7. Daemoniac

    Daemoniac Rivethead Magnate. Contributor

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    Yeah we definitely are.

    Some brands aren't so bad, Orange and Randall aren't too bad so far as price goes (both between $2k and $3kAUD depending on the amp), Peavey isn't too bad considering the price of their competition (again around the $3k mark depending where you go), even the BlackStar stuff isn't that bad ($3-3.5k).

    But the second you get into anything even remotely boutique-ish, and the prices absolutely shoot up.
     
  8. cow 7 sig

    cow 7 sig AU director / RHLC ©

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    the thing with mesa is they set the pricing and thats it.no shop or distributor can change that.sure you can go buy a head and cab but you will pay full price on the head(mesa) but the shop can look after you on the cab.
    i have a 6260 head and it sounds almost like my block 5150.
    i have spent a lot of time with the magician,and to my ears it too is very very close to a MK5,to the point i am ready to pick one up for myself.
    as i said.if you can afford the real thing go for it.if not then the bugera clones are very good for the price.but dont go rip on them just because there not made to the same standard or in big name amp shops.people also forget there are some big names out there who use and tour with these amps.it is rare for one to fail these days.
     
  9. Isan

    Isan Contributor

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    I dont buy the bugera being unreliable... I gigged with mine for a year now ... and 0 problems other then the gay ass clip
     
  10. El Caco

    El Caco Djavli te ponesli Contributor

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    I've seen thread where one was opened with pics, it looked like a cheap build which is what you would expect so I wouldn't expect long term reliability but they are covered for a year and you could always upgrade them after that with higher quality components and point to point wiring and it would still work out far cheaper. I still have mixed feelings about buying these types of products though and I would much rather give my money to a local amp builder like MI Amplification if I can afford it.
     
  11. iff

    iff SS.org Regular

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    So where can I find this book written on Bugeras? Or do you plan on going to a music store and asking their tech how many broken Bugeras he's received in the last week alone?
     
  12. Daemoniac

    Daemoniac Rivethead Magnate. Contributor

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    Me too dude, but that last underlined/bold section pretty much covers it :(

    There are a load of amps i'd rather pay the cash for than Bugera, if I could afford it, but given the money outlook over the next couple of years, this is looking better and better :lol:
     
  13. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    About two years ago, when the Bugera stuff first hit the market all over the web were threads about people's Bugera's dying on them. Then, about eight months or so later, the reports were further and farther in between. Now, I can't remember anyone posting about problems with their Bugera amp. I know people who have owned them for a year or so, and they are running perfectly. The guys I know who work at shops which sell them, don't joke about them breaking down anymore.

    Unless Bugera is handing out payouts for silence, the dependency of these amps has improved to some degree.

    I'm not saying they don't die, but I've been to enough amp repair shops to know that all types of amp, in every price range, will fail. Caps and pots have a finite life span.

    The point is, these amps, while cheaper (in both build and price) are still a better option to many players where even used amps are quite expensive.
     
  14. cow 7 sig

    cow 7 sig AU director / RHLC ©

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    this:yesway:
    and they do sound good too.
     
  15. iff

    iff SS.org Regular

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    I do agree with what you said there and I probably came off as a dick from that post, but I felt an annoying prod would serve as the best way to actually get a straight answer about what "real research" on a two year old amp company entails if internet research doesn't count.
     
  16. FearComplex

    FearComplex SS.org Regular

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    Do you think that if they were suffering from poor sales they couldn't afford to substantially drop their prices? Those Mesa prices are really the best they can do? Forget about Bugera for a moment, I'm supposed to believe there's 2 grand extra worth of components in a recto than a 6505? If they can get 3 grand for their amps then good luck to them, there's just not a chance in hell I'm going to believe they couldn't price them far lower or their name isn't playing a massive role in those prices.
     
  17. Moro

    Moro Big damn hero

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    That is not entirely true. Several Marshall amps mount the pots and the tube sockets on the board. Diezel mounts the tube sockets on the boards too. That is not an indication of bad contruction, it's just a choice based on convenience. Just look up any picture of a DSL201, here:

    [​IMG]

    Notice the green pots and the preamp sockets mounted right on the board. Some great amps can have some very, VERY questionable construction.

    Fender Bassman:
    [​IMG]

    Bad Cat:
    [​IMG]

    Now imagine a resistor blows up in those, vs a resistor blows up in the Bugera. Which one is easier to diagnose and repair?

    I understand that you may feel that the Bugera is unreliable, given the reputation they have. However, what you're indicating as the cause is not correct. Some amp manufacturers decide to mount things on the chassis. Some other decide to mount it on the board. Either way, the component can be crap or can be great.

    Trust me man, how you mount the components is NOT critical to the reliability. Now, given the price differences, I am willing to agree with you and bet that Bugera uses cheap components. But I just wanted to clarify that.
     
  18. TemjinStrife

    TemjinStrife Power Metal Cellist

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    1.) First of all, a Rectifier is a FAR more complex circuit than a 6505. Many more components, but much more importantly far more labor.

    2.) There is a lot of handwork involved in the Mesa. I don't know how much there is in the Peavey.

    3.) Mesa customer support is one of the best in the business. They have to pay for knowledgeable people and their time to work the phones and emails.

    4.) Mesa is a much smaller shop than Peavey, thus volume is lower.

    5.) Mesa's EU distributors' pricing is fucking ridiculous.
     
  19. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    :agreed:

    In the US, considering the product, Mesa gear is priced pretty fair. Peavey has pretty much always been the more "economical" brand in comparison. Not a dig, just a fact.

    The prices abroad are ridiculous, but the distributors and import taxes are really what's at fault.
     
  20. newamerikangospel

    newamerikangospel Tonight.......you

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    :lol:


    When I read this comment and looked at the pictures, without looking through them, I thought the first one was mesa, since it appears cleaner. Then after looking at the socket mounting and the knobs, I realized the difference.
     

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