Official Daemoness Guitars Thread

Nrf1967

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I have been away for ages. Recently came back to the forum to see the state of things. My build was supposed to start years ago and nothing ever came from it. I think I submitted my deposit 2015-2016? Basically the day the books reopened. I was unaware refunds were being given out. Reading part of this thread tells me I'm not getting that refund any time soon, right?

I can live without the money, but it is very disappoint to see this fall out the way is had. At this point I think Daemoness should license their designs and use the sales of those (clones, basic models or sub-brand) as stable income as he brings his brand back. But well... some great artists are not great businessmen.

I wish everyone good luck. I'll go back into hibernation until there is any different news.
I think that what happened was that it became known that Dylan would look at refunds if asked. He posted on this forum after a lengthy period of silence to say that he'd had problems, was sorting things out, etc. Can't remember whether he mentioned refunds himself in that post, or if someone else replying suggested he was open to the idea?

I considered asking for a refund but took his comments about getting back on track at face value and gave him the benefit of the doubt so kept with it, a decision I now regret!

Have you paid just the first deposit, or also the second one linked to the purchase of woods, etc? I've paid both, so am currently £1200 out of pocket.
 

Flappydoodle

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Reading part of this thread tells me I'm not getting that refund any time soon, right?
If you can get through to Dylan and get a reply, yes he will refund you.

The game is tracking down whatever form of communication he is using and replying on.

I strongly advise sending ONE email, clearly listing out your order number so who knows who you are, along with your proof of sending him the money, and the bank details to give the refund.

Any sort of "back and forth" is probably going to end in frustration for you if he disappears again.
 

possumkiller

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To be 100% honest, I don't even blame Dylan anymore. He let everyone know what's up. He offered refunds. It is obvious he is burned out and done. I blame the idiots who keep sending him money and the incessant fanbois trying to convince everyone their order from seven or eight years ago is just around the corner that Dylan is just in a rough patch and will bounce back. Dude has been in the same rough patch for the better part of a decade. It's just not happening.
 

mehegama

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To be 100% honest, I don't even blame Dylan anymore. He let everyone know what's up. He offered refunds. It is obvious he is burned out and done. I blame the idiots who keep sending him money and the incessant fanbois trying to convince everyone their order from seven or eight years ago is just around the corner that Dylan is just in a rough patch and will bounce back. Dude has been in the same rough patch for the better part of a decade. It's just not happening.
I think this describes the situation the best.
 

narad

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To be 100% honest, I don't even blame Dylan anymore. He let everyone know what's up. He offered refunds. It is obvious he is burned out and done. I blame the idiots who keep sending him money and the incessant fanbois trying to convince everyone their order from seven or eight years ago is just around the corner that Dylan is just in a rough patch and will bounce back. Dude has been in the same rough patch for the better part of a decade. It's just not happening.

It's definitely a shit situation. I don't know why he's so hard to get in touch or keeps dropping the ball on these "I'll get back to you later" promises, it definitely sucks. But guitars are still coming along, and as far as I can tell, he's not taking any money (i.e., no one is sending him money, except for people whose build slot pops up). Whenever I really wonder why I bother I pop on insta and see these absolute knock-out instruments.

The only sound advice I have is if losing 600 GBP is a big deal to you, you probably shouldn't be ordering a custom guitar from a one-man shop. It's risky business. It's nice of him to even give those refunds when they're defined in the transaction as non-refundable. I don't think I'll be seeing my instrument anytime soon, but I also don't care. I've been down this road before and paid attention to all the other shit luthier situations to know what I was getting into. Also had Dylan build two guitars for me already without a hitch and I like the process and his attitude to the guitars and metal culture in general (mostly).
 

GTR0B

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Man this sucks, really had my sights set on ordering a Daemoness at some point this year.

Hope that this hasn't ruined Dylan, I really liked to see that talent and dedication put into every build.
 

Nrf1967

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It's definitely a shit situation. I don't know why he's so hard to get in touch or keeps dropping the ball on these "I'll get back to you later" promises, it definitely sucks. But guitars are still coming along, and as far as I can tell, he's not taking any money (i.e., no one is sending him money, except for people whose build slot pops up). Whenever I really wonder why I bother I pop on insta and see these absolute knock-out instruments.

The only sound advice I have is if losing 600 GBP is a big deal to you, you probably shouldn't be ordering a custom guitar from a one-man shop. It's risky business. It's nice of him to even give those refunds when they're defined in the transaction as non-refundable. I don't think I'll be seeing my instrument anytime soon, but I also don't care. I've been down this road before and paid attention to all the other shit luthier situations to know what I was getting into. Also had Dylan build two guitars for me already without a hitch and I like the process and his attitude to the guitars and metal culture in general (mostly).
I'm intrigued by your comment that guitars are still coming along because I wasn't aware of that. Do you mean this year? One reason I posted here a couple of weeks back was that I noticed that Dylan hadn't posted anything on Instagram since December, coupled with the lack of communication more generally.
 

narad

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I'm intrigued by your comment that guitars are still coming along because I wasn't aware of that. Do you mean this year? One reason I posted here a couple of weeks back was that I noticed that Dylan hadn't posted anything on Instagram since December, coupled with the lack of communication more generally.

I mean in general, I only check his insta a couple times a year. I hadn't checked since like the last camo V was posted. But then again, I see that and it's like, shit, that's a real deal camo V. Not like some ESP/Jackson style basic camo, next level. As to him disappearing specifically in the last few months, I have no idea, but in this thread people are always accusing him of disappearing for years now, and often times within those periods you actually do see guitars getting done.
 

IbanezDaemon

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The economic crisis in the UK at the minute is shocking with prices soaring on everything. Energy bills have gone through the roof and landlords and increasing rent like crazy at the minute. All of this has a devastating effect on small business. It's bound to be very detrimental to one man luthier operations.
 

Sermo Lupi

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All I can say to this is that I'm pretty sure luthiers are aware of all the factors to consider in maximizing their output. It's not like he decided on batches of about a dozen because he drew the number randomly from a hat -- it is a number arrived on after some deliberate thought. I don't think I would be (or naturally others would be) in a better position to suggest a better approach while knowing close to nothing about basically everything involved in the process.

I'm not sure folks here are suggesting actual process improvements anymore. The comments tend to be more in the vein of "why isn't this working for Dylan, and if it's not his process, has something else gone wrong?"

Custom luthiers are a mixed bag but there are a small number that seem to succeed in terms of regular output and long-term success. I'm sure you've experienced the gamut yourself. I think it's natural for customers to compare shops if their results vary dramatically despite facing similar challenges. More importantly, I think recognising that shops like Dylan's can be sustainable long-term goes a long way to re-establishing trust in what Dylan is trying to do with Daemoness.

The concerns grew firstly out of the length of the build queue, and those concerns didn't necessarily have to extend to Dylan's working practices. If he'd acknowledged the problem as a mistake on the business side and acknowledged some of the challenges he was facing, this may have blown over so long as he committed to publicly sharing progress in a way that was feasible for him. For example, no lengthy emails or social media posts, but maybe he just posts a single instagram photo every 3 months of a batch of guitars completed over that period.

Looking at other comparable shops, a rate of one completed guitar per month seems to be decent. So I don't think anyone should expect Dylan to move heaven and earth to complete the queue all at once. On the other hand, showing at least that much progress on a regular basis is probably exactly what Dylan's customers need to feel confident in Daemoness again.

The economic crisis in the UK at the minute is shocking with prices soaring on everything. Energy bills have gone through the roof and landlords and increasing rent like crazy at the minute. All of this has a devastating effect on small business. It's bound to be very detrimental to one man luthier operations.

I was going to mention that as well. The UK has been hit really hard in ways that people living in other countries might not realise. Energy bills increased 1.5-2x ~6 months ago and are due to increase about that much again. For any businesses with cashflow problems, it's becoming incredibly hard to keep things running.

I definitely sympatise with Dylan's predicament. Times can't be easy for him, yet he probably feels like he can't come out and address the challenges or customers may get cold feet. I just hope he knows a lot of people in the UK are going through that right now and that most people would understand.
 

narad

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I'm not sure folks here are suggesting actual process improvements anymore. The comments tend to be more in the vein of "why isn't this working for Dylan, and if it's not his process, has something else gone wrong?"

Custom luthiers are a mixed bag but there are a small number that seem to succeed in terms of regular output and long-term success. I'm sure you've experienced the gamut yourself. I think it's natural for customers to compare shops if their results vary dramatically despite facing similar challenges. More importantly, I think recognising that shops like Dylan's can be sustainable long-term goes a long way to re-establishing trust in what Dylan is trying to do with Daemoness.

The concerns grew firstly out of the length of the build queue, and those concerns didn't necessarily have to extend to Dylan's working practices. If he'd acknowledged the problem as a mistake on the business side and acknowledged some of the challenges he was facing, this may have blown over so long as he committed to publicly sharing progress in a way that was feasible for him. For example, no lengthy emails or social media posts, but maybe he just posts a single instagram photo every 3 months of a batch of guitars completed over that period.

Looking at other comparable shops, a rate of one completed guitar per month seems to be decent. So I don't think anyone should expect Dylan to move heaven and earth to complete the queue all at once. On the other hand, showing at least that much progress on a regular basis is probably exactly what Dylan's customers need to feel confident in Daemoness again.



I was going to mention that as well. The UK has been hit really hard in ways that people living in other countries might not realise. Energy bills increased 1.5-2x ~6 months ago and are due to increase about that much again. For any businesses with cashflow problems, it's becoming incredibly hard to keep things running.

I definitely sympatise with Dylan's predicament. Times can't be easy for him, yet he probably feels like he can't come out and address the challenges or customers may get cold feet. I just hope he knows a lot of people in the UK are going through that right now and that most people would understand.

I mean, maybe now. But ten days ago when I posted that the idea was that building in batches is part of the problem. I still think that just doesn't make any sense, and also gets at the meta point, which is we have very little insight into the day-to-day production at that shop, in all facets, and yet people with no building experience are eager to explain how things could all be working much better if only he was doing X. Those are basically my two points.

But if you want to ask why things work for other comparable shops and not for Dylan, then I just want to know what a comparable shop is. It seems like he could be doing much better, but he also does stuff that other guys don't do and aren't capable of.
 
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Sermo Lupi

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But if you want to ask why things work for other comparable shops and not for Dylan, then I just want to know what a comparable shop is. It seems like he could be doing much better, but he also does stuff that other guys don't do and aren't capable of.

Without getting into the minutiae of artwork, inlays, etc., a shop like Artinger seems the closest comparison. Two-man team, one guy dealing with the communication, the other doing all the luthier work. Matt produces 15-20 guitars a year, which you can count using the upload dates from his gallery page.

Yes, I understand in some cases that Dylan's artwork can significantly bottleneck builds and that he's one of the only one-stop-shops for that kind of thing, but as others have said, that doesn't apply to every Daemoness build (or even a majority anymore). All of the challenges mentioned in recent pages (like juggling tasks as a solo luthier, building in batches, having to account for curing times, order delays, shop equipment maintenance/station change-over, out-sourcing, etc.) pertain to other small shops like Artinger as well.

I agree with you that Dylan's work is brilliant and that he has his niche. In that sense you're at the mercy of his schedule if you want a guitar in his specific style. However, that's a separate discussion from whether the shop is operating efficiently.

I'd also say that artists have to work to timescales as well. Many artists work more quickly than non-artists realise (which I can attest to, having lived with one for 15 years). Plus it seems a bit unfair to Dylan to blame what I'm sure are logistical issues and legitimate disruption on delays caused by the spectre of "artwork". He's a remarkably capable artist...none of that should be delaying guitars by months or years. From what we've seen Dylan can achieve when working at the height of his powers, there's no reason why he can't aspire to produce more than a dozen guitars a year, should he want to.

Do we even have an idea if he's anywhere close to that? How many instruments do we know have been completed in the last year, for instance?
 

M3CHK1LLA

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Do we even have an idea if he's anywhere close to that? How many instruments do we know have been completed in the last year, for instance?
seems like i remember around a total of 110-120 guitars shipped from his beginning to about a year or so ago.

not sure how many this past year...
 

OmegaSlayer

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Dylan has been one of the best
It pains to see how this story is going forward

I think he should go back to his master Tom Waghorn and see if they can work together
 

mehegama

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Do we even have an idea if he's anywhere close to that? How many instruments do we know have been completed in the last year, for instance?
in his instagram, over the last 2.5-3 years you can see about 20 different guitars, but some are older ones. Basically if you check pics of projects at various stages over the last 52 weeks i can probably say it s basically 3 (the 2 with the weird shapes and the camo V) plus maybe the red and the guts LPs. My rough estimate, seeing the previous years with these 4 cimmerians as well, it should be about 4-5 guitars per year.
Disclosure: I might be completely wrong
 

Flappydoodle

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I think he should go back to his master Tom Waghorn and see if they can work together

Tom's website and Instagram is even more dead than Dylan's. I know he has a stellar reputation, but with his shop being larger, and having more staff, it's also a little weird to me that I don't see much output. But perhaps Tom just doesn't bother doing internet stuff(?)

Another small UK builder is Chris from Carillion. And the impression I get from social media is that he works like a machine. You see lots of builds in progress, lots of batches in progress, lots of guitars being finished and shipped. He re-opened the build queue fairly recently after closing it around 2 years ago, so he's clearly getting things done and working through the queue. So at least as far as impressions go, it would be amazing if Dylan could be more like Carillion in communication and output.
 

KnightBrolaire

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Tom's website and Instagram is even more dead than Dylan's. I know he has a stellar reputation, but with his shop being larger, and having more staff, it's also a little weird to me that I don't see much output. But perhaps Tom just doesn't bother doing internet stuff(?)

Another small UK builder is Chris from Carillion. And the impression I get from social media is that he works like a machine. You see lots of builds in progress, lots of batches in progress, lots of guitars being finished and shipped. He re-opened the build queue fairly recently after closing it around 2 years ago, so he's clearly getting things done and working through the queue. So at least as far as impressions go, it would be amazing if Dylan could be more like Carillion in communication and output.
Waghorn just sucks at updating social media. He hasn't even posted a shot of my guitar (which was finished last november or so). I started my waghorn build the same time as my daemoness for perspective. Unlike Dylan at least Tom can actually deliver guitars and communicate.
 

Heroooh

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Tom's website and Instagram is even more dead than Dylan's. I know he has a stellar reputation, but with his shop being larger, and having more staff, it's also a little weird to me that I don't see much output. But perhaps Tom just doesn't bother doing internet stuff(?)

Another small UK builder is Chris from Carillion. And the impression I get from social media is that he works like a machine. You see lots of builds in progress, lots of batches in progress, lots of guitars being finished and shipped. He re-opened the build queue fairly recently after closing it around 2 years ago, so he's clearly getting things done and working through the queue. So at least as far as impressions go, it would be amazing if Dylan could be more like Carillion in communication and output.
Chris from Carillion is a beast, I'd even say that hes atleast on par with Dylan when it comes to inlay work. I know Lorcan can attest to his work and so can I.
 

mehegama

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Waghorn just sucks at updating social media. He hasn't even posted a shot of my guitar (which was finished last november or so). I started my waghorn build the same time as my daemoness for perspective. Unlike Dylan at least Tom can actually deliver guitars and communicate.
how long idid it take in total for the Waghorn build?
 

Flappydoodle

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Waghorn just sucks at updating social media. He hasn't even posted a shot of my guitar (which was finished last november or so). I started my waghorn build the same time as my daemoness for perspective. Unlike Dylan at least Tom can actually deliver guitars and communicate.
Yeah I figured that would be the case. When I met him, he definitely seemed very down to earth, organised, gave the impression of somebody who had his shit together etc. And all the email communication I had before and after meeting him was prompt and his replies were always useful.
 


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