Official Daemoness Guitars Thread

YannHeartfield

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It's pretty apparent over the years that the queue does not move predictably. There are some instances back in this thread where it also doesn't seem to follow "first come, first served".


Some build and people are more inspiring that's for sure, that's just one human speaking to one other, sometime you got the feeling going sometime not at all, let's just believe in the man, that's the artist way, as narad said two years ago :

If you're going to get this dramatic, custom guitars are not for you. Just relax, and check in at a time when we're not in a pandemic.

He will just come back one day, be in the mood for it and the joy will come back and you guys will share his amazing work like it's Christmas, this pandemic is endless let's be honest... respiratory issues are the worst.

Let's just remember and keep this post alive a little, this one bring me in :

the purgatory
 

narad

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I also don't think there's even been any
It's pretty apparent over the years that the queue does not move predictably. There are some instances back in this thread where it also doesn't seem to follow "first come, first served".

Well I mean, do you have proof? I don't remember ever hearing that the batches were not processed sequentially (that's not to say that two people in the same batch will receive their guitars in the same order as their deposit dates).
 

spudmunkey

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I also don't think there's even been any


Well I mean, do you have proof? I don't remember ever hearing that the batches were not processed sequentially (that's not to say that two people in the same batch will receive their guitars in the same order as their deposit dates).

I also suspect that simply the nature of the specific designs could mean that a simpler build could pass up a more complex one. He only has a couple in progress at any time, right? If someone just wanted one with a very plain finish, it could pass one that needed intricate inlays and a hand-painted body...unless he schedules his build process in a very inefficient way.
 

MaxOfMetal

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Folks who don't know how the sausage is made assume it's like building IKEA furniture.

Order goes in and the guitar is made one at a time from start to finish.

Except that's not how it works. Stuff needs to set. It needs to cure. It needs to dry. Things need to be ordered. Things need to be delivered. Templates need to be cut. Test runs need to be made. Shop equipment needs to be changed over. Stations need reset. Cleaning. There are just so many parts. A lot of waiting, and within that time other builds take place.
 

narad

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Yea, but to be clearer on it, definitely things don't wrap up perfectly in deposit order, but I've never heard of someone getting into like the current batch, and someone who placed an earlier deposit wind up in a later batch. As far as I understand the batch moves sequentially, apart from people postponing (I did last time I was up) or materials issues, etc. If it's being insinuated otherwise, then there should be some examples posted I think, since that's definitely a more ethically tenuous spot (Vik did this -- let people skip the queue for money), and I don't think Dylan's ever been shown to be doing it.
 

MaxOfMetal

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Yea, but to be clearer on it, definitely things don't wrap up perfectly in deposit order, but I've never heard of someone getting into like the current batch, and someone who placed an earlier deposit wind up in a later batch. As far as I understand the batch moves sequentially, apart from people postponing (I did last time I was up) or materials issues, etc. If it's being insinuated otherwise, then there should be some examples posted I think, since that's definitely a more ethically tenuous spot (Vik did this -- let people skip the queue for money), and I don't think Dylan's ever been shown to be doing it.

I think it's easy enough for certain orders to fall way behind and others to come to move ahead quickly purely out of luck, and from the outside looking in, it can certainly seem like a particular build is either being ignored or pushed through.

It does seem like a couple artist builds did that.

It's all conjecture though.
 

narad

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I think it's easy enough for certain orders to fall way behind and others to come to move ahead quickly purely out of luck, and from the outside looking in, it can certainly seem like a particular build is either being ignored or pushed through.

It does seem like a couple artist builds did that.

I think it's industry standard to do that for artists, so definitely not considering that. I think it'd just be weird for endorsers to hop on the back end of a 7 year queue. But we actually have some way of confirming if Dylan was doing this since you have the deposits you have to pay when your batch starts, so if those are winding up really out of order, then that's getting suspicious. But just to be clear, I don't recall seeing that in the thread previously.
 

MaxOfMetal

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I think it's industry standard to do that for artists, so definitely not considering that. I think it'd just be weird for endorsers to hop on the back end of a 7 year queue. But we actually have some way of confirming if Dylan was doing this since you have the deposits you have to pay when your batch starts, so if those are winding up really out of order, then that's getting suspicious. But just to be clear, I don't recall seeing that in the thread previously.

As time drags on and builds go silent it gets harder to see exactly where things are at for anybody.

Again, I don't think Dylan is letting anyone "skip" anybody else, mainly because I don't think he's making guitars right now, but also because I think some projects have, naturally, stalled while others seem to come together.
 

Lorcan Ward

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Since Dylan works in batches some guitars get finished quicker. There was a good 6 months between some when I ordered, so someone who ordered after me got their guitar before mine. Wether our of luck, had all the hardware ready or took his interest more. I could see how that looks like skipping ahead but it’s just the nature of working in batches, especially since Dylan has been doing 20 builds at a time. One person could have a year less wait that way.

I can confidently say Dylan didn’t allow any kind of queue jumping a few years ago, nor selling of spots. Some guys used to get angry he wouldn’t do a Vik and offer quick builds at a premium.
 

narad

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the fact that this forum, for the last 4 years is still discussing the delays rather than his creations, it s not a good sign imo. i still cannot understand how it takes 2 years + to build a guitar, without even counting the 5years of pure wait.

It doesn't take 2 years + to build a guitar, but it might take 3 years to build 15. That's how batches work. It's still slow, but again, it's not like Dylan is sitting there in front of one block of wood for 24 months, shipping it out, starting the next one, etc.
 

mehegama

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It doesn't take 2 years + to build a guitar, but it might take 3 years to build 15. That's how batches work. It's still slow, but again, it's not like Dylan is sitting there in front of one block of wood for 24 months, shipping it out, starting the next one, etc.
I think he has produced way less than 15 over the last 3 years, but in any case what i see is that after all what happened, does not seem that much changed. Again most of the latest guitars are not that extravagant in terms of finishes and inlays, so i m still trying to work in my head how he works. I have interacted with many other reputable custom shops and, to set it kindly, Dylan has a bit of a strange way to handle things.
Maybe the batch thing does not work as he delays all customer in the batch. Why not do it like 2-3 builds per batch? In that way he ll have an output much quicker and will also avoid further delays to those higher in the queue
 

narad

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I think he has produced way less than 15 over the last 3 years, but in any case what i see is that after all what happened, does not seem that much changed. Again most of the latest guitars are not that extravagant in terms of finishes and inlays, so i m still trying to work in my head how he works. I have interacted with many other reputable custom shops and, to set it kindly, Dylan has a bit of a strange way to handle things.
Maybe the batch thing does not work as he delays all customer in the batch. Why not do it like 2-3 builds per batch? In that way he ll have an output much quicker and will also avoid further delays to those higher in the queue

All I can say to this is that I'm pretty sure luthiers are aware of all the factors to consider in maximizing their output. It's not like he decided on batches of about a dozen because he drew the number randomly from a hat -- it is a number arrived on after some deliberate thought. I don't think I would be (or naturally others would be) in a better position to suggest a better approach while knowing close to nothing about basically everything involved in the process.

I imagine your suggestions boils down to something akin to, "These brownies are taking too long -- it's been like an hour already? Why not make 2-3 brownies at a time, so then the average wait time would be 5 mins?"
 

mehegama

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All I can say to this is that I'm pretty sure luthiers are aware of all the factors to consider in maximizing their output. It's not like he decided on batches of about a dozen because he drew the number randomly from a hat -- it is a number arrived on after some deliberate thought. I don't think I would be (or naturally others would be) in a better position to suggest a better approach while knowing close to nothing about basically everything involved in the process.

I imagine your suggestions boils down to something akin to, "These brownies are taking too long -- it's been like an hour already? Why not make 2-3 brownies at a time, so then the average wait time would be 5 mins?"
That would hold if brownies and guitars needed similar time and equipment to make. The way you set it obviously makes no sense to make 2-3 brownies at the time coz you can make, say 20, with the exact same equipment and time. But with guitars is not the case. So the example is not one for one.

My point was more on the fact that not much changed, especially on the communication field.
Again as i m out of the queue at this point, i really like his work, as an observer, but struggle to follow his work process.
 

narad

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That would hold if brownies and guitars needed similar time and equipment to make. The way you set it obviously makes no sense to make 2-3 brownies at the time coz you can make, say 20, with the exact same equipment and time. But with guitars is not the case. So the example is not one for one.

My point was more on the fact that not much changed, especially on the communication field.
Again as i m out of the queue at this point, i really like his work, as an observer, but struggle to follow his work process.
Again, here our ignorance makes it impossible to give useful suggestions. For a fact, many small shops prefer to work in batches because many of the jigs and tooling and work areas for specific steps must be setup and disassembled afterwards. Is that the case for Dylan? Who knows. Not us.

If someone walked up to you off the street and asked what your job is, and you were like, I don't know, "I'm plant manager at Toyota, I oversee all the manufacturing of the cars. It's my job, I trained to do this, I know ever process of car manufacturing, from start to finish, and now I do this 40 hours a week, for the past 15 years." and then they were like, "oh yea, I've bought and driven cars before. Let me offer you some advice that will greatly increase your output", do you think it would be good advice?
 

MaxOfMetal

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Assuming that a one-person operation that can't even complete the process on their own (needs to outsource for paint/finish), who specializes in bespoke artwork, can be "optimized" like the custom shop of a giant guitar manufacturing company is asinine.

Which isn't to say that Dylan is in a good place, or building as fast as humanly possible, but it's apples to screwdrivers.

Dylan probably isn't doing some stuff "right", but that's the risk when going with super small specialty builders. Dude could get hit by a bus, or just decide he doesn't want to do this whole guitar thing anymore and you're boned.

It's definitely unfortunate that he's gone silent again, and it definitely doesn't bode well for any builds in queue, but I feel like we've had this discussion before.

Perhaps I'm just a bit jaded having seen this same song and dance a few dozen times.
 

mehegama

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If someone walked up to you off the street and asked what your job is, and you were like, I don't know, "I'm plant manager at Toyota, I oversee all the manufacturing of the cars. It's my job, I trained to do this, I know ever process of car manufacturing, from start to finish, and now I do this 40 hours a week, for the past 15 years." and then they were like, "oh yea, I've bought and driven cars before. Let me offer you some advice that will greatly increase your output", do you think it would be good advice?
I understand what you say but given the situation for quite some time now, i don't think that I would pick Dylan as "the expert" in the job to explain scheduling. I m exaggerating a bit here, but it s a bit like that same Toyota plant manager with all that experience, has for quite some time production issues and only produces 30% of what he should have produced. I think a bit of an advice is always needed in situations like that.
Of course Dylan can (and probably does) ignore all these suggestions. For example i suggested to him to become a "modification shop" where he does graphics, inlays etc on existing guitar, as i think that's where his expertise is. Never got a reply
 

narad

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I understand what you say but given the situation for quite some time now, i don't think that I would pick Dylan as "the expert" in the job to explain scheduling. I m exaggerating a bit here, but it s a bit like that same Toyota plant manager with all that experience, has for quite some time production issues and only produces 30% of what he should have produced. I think a bit of an advice is always needed in situations like that.

And in that situation, maybe some advice from people working scheduling in that particular domain from people working on exactly those problems is maybe helpful, but again, do you think you're going to get helpful advice from some random person who knows nothing about the industry and spent only a few minutes thinking about it/researching it?

I think it's something many people can relate to -- you meet someone, get talking about work, and they offer some "advice" about how you could do things better. It's never good advice, why would it be - they don't know anything about specifics, but you smile and nod. But when you flip it around, do you really want to be that guy?
 

JimF

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For example i suggested to him to become a "modification shop" where he does graphics, inlays etc on existing guitar, as i think that's where his expertise is. Never got a reply

I can't think of many independent craftsmen with 5 year plus waiting lists and international demand taking unsolicited advice concerning their already successful business...
 

mehegama

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And in that situation, maybe some advice from people working scheduling in that particular domain from people working on exactly those problems is maybe helpful, but again, do you think you're going to get helpful advice from some random person who knows nothing about the industry and spent only a few minutes thinking about it/researching it?

I think it's something many people can relate to -- you meet someone, get talking about work, and they offer some "advice" about how you could do things better. It's never good advice, why would it be - they don't know anything about specifics, but you smile and nod. But when you flip it around, do you really want to be that guy?
I m only discussing these issues here coz i was affected by them. Obviously in the end of the day I got my refund, and the issues were never resolved, and this is sad as i m a big fan of his work, regardless. And it is just a discussion between random people, i never said my opinion has to be of value for him. It s just that, an opinion.

I can't think of many independent craftsmen with 5 year plus waiting lists and international demand taking unsolicited advice concerning their already successful business...
I t was not unsolicited advice. It was part of an email exchange, as we were arranging the refund. As for being a successful business, given all the discussions these many years and quite a few refunds, i have my doubts if the business side of things can be characterized as such. The artistic, for sure, the business i m not so sure.
 


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