Official Daemoness Guitars Thread

Discussion in 'Dealers & Group Buys' started by Joe Harvatt, Jan 9, 2014.

  1. jjcor

    jjcor SS.org Regular

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    He responded to me email last week. And said he’s been shut because of Covid 19. And the lacquer had been shut as well. But now things have been eased up so he’s trying to get back to work. I’ve waited 6 years so what’s a few more months. I’ve never hassled him about my build. I would just check in once a year and he always responded, even though some times it took him a few weeks to do so. I’m just stoked that my build is almost done.
     
  2. Blytheryn

    Blytheryn Musical Adam West

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    That’s good to hear. This has been reiterated time and time again on this thread, the long wait is to be expected when it comes to commissioning a Daemoness. It’s more akin to having a sword crafted for you, or getting a piece of artwork done, than ordering a guitar.

    I’m super stoked to see your upcoming build jjcor!
     
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  3. mehegama

    mehegama SS.org Regular

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    6 years? damn... im on 25 months so I think i should chill.. However it would be much more professional to update the 30 months to 50. They need to have a realistic and honest approach to the waiting times, otherwise we are ending up with similar reactions like, say, the FM3 fiasco. I understand it s an one man thing, but it s good to have a proper expectation management.
     
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  4. Flappydoodle

    Flappydoodle SS.org Regular

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    Should close the order book if we're really honest about it. Carillion, Waghorn etc close once the list gets more than two years.
     
  5. prlgmnr

    prlgmnr ...that kind of idea

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    Did I miss someone having an entertaining meltdown?
     
  6. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    I still say an open queue is the most customer-centric system one can do, as long as the stated estimates are accurate (with perhaps some caveats for repeat customers). It controls itself -- if you don't want to join a 5 year queue, you don't. The person who joined the 4.9 year queue was willing to, and the person joining the 5.1 year queue simply wants it more than you.
     
  7. mehegama

    mehegama SS.org Regular

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    Yes but the communicated wait is 30 months plus 4-8 months for the build. That s 38 month and it s far from the actual 60 to 72 months reported above. So better communication is essential on this. Also i think that far fewer people would have gone for one if they were told the wait is 72 months.
     
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  8. c7spheres

    c7spheres GuitArtist

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    I still regret not putting a deposit down 5 years or so ago.
    - I think the thing with almost all these custom shop people (even in non guitar industry) is that all the communication takes a lot of time and makes the project take even longer. The problem isn't infrequent communication it's the never communicating and leaving people uneasy and swingin in the air.
    - What all these types of places need to do is dictate their own terms of communication up front before money is taken (ie an update once a month, a year, at time of expected delivery etc) and stick to it. Things like saying 30-38 months and then still nothing after 60-72 is just inexcusible and would have me livid. It's understandable that with custom builds things can take longer than expected, but one thing that should never be slacked on is communication. All processes should halt to meet the predetermined communication and progress updates. It's happned with every build, repair, custom project I've ever had done. These people all seem to be this way for some reason. They also are all ears and communicate very effectively and diligently when you're trying to give them money. Once they get that they could care less. It's par for the course.
    - I'd still like to commission a Daemoness sometime though, but If I was in a position of being told 30-38 months and haven't heard anything for 60-72 then I'd probably resort to some type of harassment or legal action because at that point you're realistically a fraud victim. Communication is key.
     
  9. 2liveis2die35

    2liveis2die35 SS.org Regular

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    I've been through this process and never did I get its gonna be this amount of time.when I was quoted it was 24 months give or take never a promise it would be 24 months.i was fortunate enough that it happened that way.even then I was short of 5 years of getting my guitar.And imo it was worth the wait. your guitar will be done a year in advance and it seems to me that Dylan will let it settle before her really does the final touches and setup.so that you get a guitar that's ready to go At your specs. that's from experience.I'm.sure everyone that actually gets a guitar from Dylan has a different story.
     
  10. savage

    savage SS.org Regular

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    I think both sides make valid points. Dylan has a reputation for delivering excellent, one-of-kind boutique instruments. Conversely, he also has difficulty meeting estimated build times. I placed my deposit in early Nov. 2016, with a 24 month estimated queue. That later changed to 30 months, then later extended again. I was supposed to be in this batch, but I did not pick out my woods yet. It is difficult having to wait twice as long as an initial estimate. Supporting dylan and having valid grievances are not mutually exclusive; one can both support the man’s work and be worried at the unforeseen and arduous wait. Well, that’s my 2 cents at least.
     
  11. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    Yea, I mean, it's a problem not having accurate estimates, but that's a problem separate from having an open queue. Open queues work fine in high-end acoustic guitars. Estimates are accurate. They even send you a small check of interest accrued on deposits. Real proper. So I say, look at the actual source of the problem.

    People who close their queues introduce this weird free-for-all rush whenever they open the queue which is undesirable. Then people who would have been in queue miss out to people that check Facebook more often or similar.
     
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  12. savage

    savage SS.org Regular

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    Right, and I think the posters above were noting their grievances with receiving a inaccurate build times, which is invariably related to having an open queue. If a queue remains open and the luthier provides inaccurate timeframes, the build time will either remain inaccurate or will extend as is the case here. I think we’re in agreement here, albeit arguing over semantics.
    a properly implemented open queue with accurate build times (i.e Matsuda as you seem to allude) is great; that’s not what with we’re dealing with in this instance.
     
  13. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    Since we're making business decisions for a guy, I would prefer he give the most accurate estimates possible and at the point where the estimate is no longer accurate, your deposit becomes refundable.
     
  14. savage

    savage SS.org Regular

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    Very reasonable proposition, I’m inclined to agree.
     
  15. Samark

    Samark SS.org Regular

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  16. mehegama

    mehegama SS.org Regular

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    Indeed a mail update is essential at this point. I m willing to wait, but I would want to know the real waiting time so i manage my expectations better. I m sure the final product will be superb.
     
  17. Sermo Lupi

    Sermo Lupi SS.org Regular

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    I realise Narad is being slightly facetious, but customer feedback can somewhat valuable here. It is worth remembering that Dylan is comparatively new to running a luthiery shop vs. Waghorn (who trained Dylan), or the above-mentioned boutique acoustic builders who often have been working for decades. Dylan is probably going to make some mistakes on the business end of things, as he doesn't have the same experience or even the same challenges as the established luthiers (e.g. costs of setting up or expanding a shop; floods of orders coming in through social media; promotion of the brand to build his reputation; and balancing all of that with actually completing orders).

    Given the complexity of Dylan's work, which includes a large portfolio of guitars that are as much paintings as instruments, I am not surprised to see he's fallen behind his estimates.

    While I do not personally see much cause for concern, any project being years behind schedule is enough reason for someone to ask for their money back.

    At the same time, I think some patience is warranted for Dylan working out the kinks since everyone who put down deposits was effectively sponsoring an up-and-coming business.

    Hasn't Dylan closed the waitlist already? He just needs to work through the queue. Maybe if he feels he can't get through it in a timely fashion, he should offer refunds, but I don't think many would take him up on the offer because of the sunk cost already, plus anyone wanting a refund has probably pushed for one already without being prompted.
     
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  18. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    Fair points but I don't agree with the view of Dylan being some fresh-on-the-block builder. I think I put my first deposit in 2008? When people have been running a business for 12 years, I think they get some benefit of the doubt. Otherwise when is the statute of limitation on that? 15 years? 20 years?
     
  19. Sermo Lupi

    Sermo Lupi SS.org Regular

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    Fair point as well, but it isn't really about his general luthiery experience. He blew up in popularity, what, less than 10 years ago? It has only been in the last ~5 years that he's been doing a lot of artist endorsements, first for guitars only, then for artistic(?) partnerships with bands like 1349. The stuff he had going on with Nolly way back in the day seemed different to how things are done at Daemoness now.

    He's no spring chicken to be sure. But if the business has expanded substantially in the last ~5 years, and there has been a lag for some builds to become 24+ months overdue, then this might be the first time he's faced this kind of problem.

    As an aside...

    For sake of comparison, I had a peek at Beneteau's website. He's been building acoustic guitars since 1974. His waitlist and deposit scheme is similar: 24-30 month wait, 10% deposit. However, he notes on his home page that "a satisfied customer is the best possible advertising". Not saying Dylan doesn't feel that way, too, but I get the sense he runs his business in a way that is fundamentally different from guys like Beneteau. There is far more focus on artist endorsement and social media, for a start.

    I don't know. You're probably right. Maybe these changes should've been a long time coming. But from following this thread, I got the sense that the waitlist has only become truly unwieldy (e.g. 1.5-2x the quoted estimates) relatively recently.
     
  20. c7spheres

    c7spheres GuitArtist

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    Maybe he's planning to launch a Made in China line Daemoness Guitars with vinyl graphics and photo flame tops so it's just taking all his time up or something.
     
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