c7spheres

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What a lot of people dont understand though is that amp models are different memory than the actual modeling. You can throw like a million amp models in there and it wouldn't matter much in terms of space, because (as I understand it), they are basically a list of parameters that tell the actual modeling what to do. Removing amp models does not free up space. IRs are in different memory as well, and removing those does not free up space for more firmware. They are all different things. The core code that is taking up all the memory is all the Math that drives how the modeling is accomplished. The core Math that models how a resistor works, how a capacitor works, how a Tube works, etc.....

EDIT: Let me end with.... "As I understand it from Fractal posts through the years, I assume this is what is happening, as no one really knows other than Cliff...."
That makes more sense then. I wonder how much room the Axe III really has left in it then. I guess whatever the firmware chip size minus the firmware file size. I'm sure it's a lot.
 

Shask

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That makes more sense then. I wonder how much room the Axe III really has left in it then. I guess whatever the firmware chip size minus the firmware file size. I'm sure it's a lot.
I dont remember the exact quote (you can search the Fractal forum, as Cliff said it in the past somewhere...), but I want to say 4x more processing power and 8x more memory.... I know it is A LOT more. Just like the Axe-FX II was MUCH more than the Ultra in 2011.
 

c7spheres

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I dont remember the exact quote (you can search the Fractal forum, as Cliff said it in the past somewhere...), but I want to say 4x more processing power and 8x more memory.... I know it is A LOT more. Just like the Axe-FX II was MUCH more than the Ultra in 2011.
- Right, I think firmware is a different chip than those too though. I don't think it even matters much anymore because these units can do so much. I'm looking for different things.

- I made a suggestion to Cliff a long time ago when the Axe II was around a few years ago and let him know what I wanted to see in the units. He responded and said "you never know". I let him know I wasn't a big effects user but did have interest in seeing things like the Positive grid midi guitar stuff. I think the next evolution for the Axe is becoming a guitar synth type unit. Back in the 1997- 2002 era. I was really into guitar synths. I had the whole setup using Axon's and Kurzweils, pedal board midi controls, loopers etc. It was really exciting and fun, but ultimately to expensive, space consuming and sporadically littered with issues to justify keeping it all. Seeing the stuff Positive Grid, EHX, Line 6 and other companies are achieving without the use of special guitar to midi converters and special hex or piezo pickups is very promising and, imo, would really sit well with and Axe unit or even as a separate unit too by the side of an Axe. I know they are different technologies, but no more different than a computer modelling a tube amp realistically. I really miss playing grand pianos, cellos, violins, organs, sitars and analog synth sound effects on my guitar. It's really fun, but it did take away a lot of time from guitar focused sounds and songwritingdue to all the issues.
 

Shask

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And still no Ax8 updates.

This is why im so frustrated.
Everyone told me that Fractal are amazing with their continued support even after newer products release - therefore i picked up the AX8 thinking that level of customet service was invaluable.

Annoyingly within 6 months of me buying one new, they were discontinued and the FM3 was ushered in. Now at first i wasnt THAT worried because of what i had been told about continued support.

However since then the Ax8 has 100% become an afterthought and collected dust in this respect. I feel slightly duped tbh and had i know this would have happened i would have probably bought another Kemper instead.
These updates make a huge improvement. My band mates II sounds loads better than my Ax8 now thanks to these updates. (Initially they sounded identical)

I dunno i just feel annoyed by it all now.

"
FractalAudio said:
I'm working on Ares 2.00 for the AX-8. It's difficult though since the processor isn't as powerful and I'm having difficulty getting the new algorithms to run in the allotted time. I've also been sick all week and only have enough strength to work a couple hours a day.

"
 

Andromalia

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Owning an axe FX is a PITA. You go "oh well, I"m fine with my version" and then there's a new firmware update and you ignore it. And the next few others.
Someday on a sunday after lunch you check Fractal Forums while sipping your coffee and you go "Oh shit I missed ALL THAT ????"

veryone told me that Fractal are amazing with their continued support even after newer products release - therefore i picked up the AX8 thinking that level of customet service was invaluable.

I luckily never had any issue with my Fractal products, but continued support doesn't mean they'll get a lot of stuff. It means Cliff will, if he can, review some stuff on the old units and update them. For free, too.
when you buy a Fractal unit you get the 99% guarantee (meteorites do happen) that the company will support and update the product for 5-7 years if you buy the original release product, a bit less if you get an evolution (XL, XL+ etc). Again, for free. That was important in a world where Line6 sold separate amp models for updates.

And, contrary to immediate perception, axe FX is *cheap*. I've owned the various iterations over 10 years now, and all I bought on the side were 2 lunchbox amps for the fun. For the price of one mesa head, and not the most expensive one at that.
Even better, the resale value stays decent, so you cna make some money back, calculate then what it cost you to rent an axe fx for 7 years and it's cheaper than Netflix.
 

mnemonic

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I noticed a thread on the fractal forum, cliff talking about the power tube bias. It seems the ‘power tube grid bias’ setting on the power amp page directly relates to the plate dissipation (for example setting of 0.70 = 70% dissipation).

I checked my Recto patch and it defaults to 0.45 or 45% plate dissipation. I have some figures I’ve found online of people hooking up bias probes to their rectos, and based on the plate voltage and current draw they measured using Mesa tubes, this seems about right.

However just for fun I tried turning the bias down, to about 0.26. After resetting the levels and redoing the eq, I think I like the sound more. More like my real (3-channel non-multiwatt) Recto, and my eq settings ended up pretty much the same as my real Recto also.

Overall the sound changes were more fizz, more aggressive (probably because of crossover distortion in the poweramp), and less compressed bass.

Turning treble and presence down brings the level of aggressiveness into check, while also taming some fizz, then turning the bass down so it’s not overly boomy.

I’m gonna have to hook up a bias probe to my Recto next time I take it out, since I don’t think it is biased that cold, but who knows. I guess it is also a different Recto revision than what is modeled, so there’s also that.

Assuming a plate voltage of about 475 volts, the plate dissipation setting I’ve chosen would equate to about 14ma per tube, so downright icy cold bias.
 

c7spheres

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I noticed a thread on the fractal forum, cliff talking about the power tube bias. It seems the ‘power tube grid bias’ setting on the power amp page directly relates to the plate dissipation (for example setting of 0.70 = 70% dissipation).

I checked my Recto patch and it defaults to 0.45 or 45% plate dissipation. I have some figures I’ve found online of people hooking up bias probes to their rectos, and based on the plate voltage and current draw they measured using Mesa tubes, this seems about right.

However just for fun I tried turning the bias down, to about 0.26. After resetting the levels and redoing the eq, I think I like the sound more. More like my real (3-channel non-multiwatt) Recto, and my eq settings ended up pretty much the same as my real Recto also.

Overall the sound changes were more fizz, more aggressive (probably because of crossover distortion in the poweramp), and less compressed bass.

Turning treble and presence down brings the level of aggressiveness into check, while also taming some fizz, then turning the bass down so it’s not overly boomy.

I’m gonna have to hook up a bias probe to my Recto next time I take it out, since I don’t think it is biased that cold, but who knows. I guess it is also a different Recto revision than what is modeled, so there’s also that.

Assuming a plate voltage of about 475 volts, the plate dissipation setting I’ve chosen would equate to about 14ma per tube, so downright icy cold bias.
That's good to know. Anything that makes it better, but in real life 14ma per tube would make me think somethings wrong. It's almost like that specific setting is inverted or something as if you just inverted that to say 85 or so then it would come out as pretty normal for hot biasing and also line up more as normal as you are saying too. I can't wait until people really start figuring out all these things in the Axe FX and even it's quirks and such and can really do things it wasn't intended to do, like a real amp and such. You know there's gonna be weird stuff discovered just lke with real amps eventually making it even cooler.
 

Mr_Marty

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If you haven't updated to the 10.02 firmware you should. Definite improvement. I was like yeah another firmware update yada yada but was pretty shocked at how much better the amps sound.
 

Genome

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Lowly IIXL user here - does anyone know if I should turn Speaker Compression & Compliance down to zero when running through a SS power amp and cab? Cliff said (a while back) that you shouldn't, but this doesn't really make sense to me - surely you should turn off all speaker sim stuff (expect for Resonance) when running through a real speaker?
 

c7spheres

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Lowly IIXL user here - does anyone know if I should turn Speaker Compression & Compliance down to zero when running through a SS power amp and cab? Cliff said (a while back) that you shouldn't, but this doesn't really make sense to me - surely you should turn off all speaker sim stuff (expect for Resonance) when running through a real speaker?
I don't own one but I would think it depends what you're going for. Like Cliff saying to not turn it dowm to zero makes sense because it's a solid state amp with a speaker cab so you'd normally want to retain the character of the AxeFx speaker model, whereas you'd normally turn it down when using with a tube amp because you'd want that amps character and also have the tube amp's interaction with speaker too. SS amps are normally pretty neutral, like a PA amp and react differently than a tube amp to speakers and normally don't offer much character in that regard. At least that's my initial thinking on it.
 

Elric

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I don't own one but I would think it depends what you're going for. Like Cliff saying to not turn it dowm to zero makes sense because it's a solid state amp with a speaker cab so you'd normally want to retain the character of the AxeFx speaker model, whereas you'd normally turn it down when using with a tube amp because you'd want that amps character and also have the tube amp's interaction with speaker too. SS amps are normally pretty neutral, like a PA amp and react differently than a tube amp to speakers and normally don't offer much character in that regard. At least that's my initial thinking on it.
Yeah. Pretty much this... one cool thing about the Axe is Cliff will give advice on your configuration but it is always just a guideline. You can always adjust those things and ‘use your ears’ and decide. Just because something is the most ‘accurate’ does not mean it sounds or works the best.

In some ways that is a big advantage of digital: you can easily adjust things that you could never tweak on an amp without completely rebuilding or physically modding it.
 

vick1000

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I always turn off speaker res when using a guitar cab, regardless of power amp, especially at high volumes. To me, it makes the rest of the parameters act more amp like in the rest of the amp block. Some people think it sounds like a "blanket" over the cab, but it sound natural to me, just add some highs like you would on your amp.
 

works0fheart

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So after having read a few pages back in this thread last week I saw that Ares is available for the Axe FX II now, so I went ahead and gave it a dl on my MKII. One thing I noticed immediately is that it made my old patch pretty quickly obsolete. Previously I was running 2 amps, each into it's own cab and I was very used to that full sound it had. Upon upgrading it was sounding a bit weird to me so I went ahead and bit the bullet and dropped my preset down to 1 amp and cab (while still using my actual cab) and it sounded great on its own. I was pretty surprised by this because a majority of the time I felt just a single amp and cab weren't quite full sounding enough before, but I'm pretty happy and relieved to see that it now not only sounds good but the simplicity frees me up a lot of space for other stuff on my patch.

Anyways, that aside, I've been debating putting up my Axe FX II MKII for sale somewhere with the intention of upgrading to the 3. However, I don't know if I'd even break 1k on trying to sell it so I'm a little put off about even beginning to bother and I'm not about to shell out 2000 on something that may not be that much of a change over what I have now. I know it's asked frequently, but has anyone here actually made the jump from the II to the III and did you feel it was worth it?
 

MaxOfMetal

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So after having read a few pages back in this thread last week I saw that Ares is available for the Axe FX II now, so I went ahead and gave it a dl on my MKII. One thing I noticed immediately is that it made my old patch pretty quickly obsolete. Previously I was running 2 amps, each into it's own cab and I was very used to that full sound it had. Upon upgrading it was sounding a bit weird to me so I went ahead and bit the bullet and dropped my preset down to 1 amp and cab (while still using my actual cab) and it sounded great on its own. I was pretty surprised by this because a majority of the time I felt just a single amp and cab weren't quite full sounding enough before, but I'm pretty happy and relieved to see that it now not only sounds good but the simplicity frees me up a lot of space for other stuff on my patch.

Anyways, that aside, I've been debating putting up my Axe FX II MKII for sale somewhere with the intention of upgrading to the 3. However, I don't know if I'd even break 1k on trying to sell it so I'm a little put off about even beginning to bother and I'm not about to shell out 2000 on something that may not be that much of a change over what I have now. I know it's asked frequently, but has anyone here actually made the jump from the II to the III and did you feel it was worth it?

I have a IIXL+~<%# and a friend has the III, so I've played around with both in the same room quite a bit.

I still have my II, and while I really want a III, I haven't felt the cost to upgrade is warranted.

The only use-case I see for immediate upgrade is if you're maxing out the II on some of the more esoteric effects and features.
 

works0fheart

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Thanks for the reply. To be honest, I keep most of my patches relatively simple. I like a couple different amps for high-gain and a couple for cleans. I like a lot of the wacky effect stuff too just for messing around or seeing if I can get a spark of creativity from time to time as well. I guess the biggest concern for me would be the amp modeling itself. If it's not any different then I don't see any point in fixing something that isn't broken.
 

Flappydoodle

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So, I just realised that an Axe FX III is only $2K. I thought they were much more expensive than that.

As a result, I hadn’t paid that much attention. So as someone who mostly does home recording and jamming using plugins, any thoughts from you guys on splurging for a new toy Axe FX III?
 


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