"Not Worth its own thread" Thread

tedtan

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If this ever happens, owners should consider Ernie Ball strings and Fokin pickups.



Maybe this actually does deserve its own thread, but we probably already had one.

I suspect neither Youtube nor Beato fully understand Fair Use. I know that I don't, and I've spent a fair amount of time studying it. It's a lot more subtle and nuanced than other aspects of copyright law.

There are four major metrics for fair use:
1. How transformative is the work?
2. What is the nature of the information being reproduced?
3. What is the portion or amount of the material is being reproduced and how sustainable is the copy?
4. What is the effect on the original work's value?

Other factors can weigh in, too, but there are no hard benchmarks on any one category, since they are all taken together.

Now, on youtube, you have tons of "reaction" videos, where someone watches a movie, television programme, music video, etc., and reacts to it by periodically saying "oh shit," "damn," or "that is whack," and occasionally pausing the video, sometimes to explain how pausing the video makes it fair use. I don't think youtube considers this fair use, but rather just doesn't consider it at all. But it's definitely not fair use. Usually, the work is not serving any transformative function, is displaying video footage that has always been under copyright control, reproducing the entire work (plus pausing it for a few seconds to explain fair use makes no sense, because it doesn't take away any portion of the original work), the copy is uploaded to youtube forever, and the effect (probably intended) is that people can watch the reaction video instead of watching the original work.

This can, of course, be done much more professionally, by 1. adding some actual commentary, 2. only showing clips necessary to gauge the reaction, such that only a small portion of the original video is reproduced, and 3. providing additional behind-the-scenes information or production notes not included with the original work. I'm no legal expert, but, to my lay-understanding of fair use, reaction videos like the sort I initially described would not pass the legal tests, and reaction videos of the second sort very likely would.

Likewise, if you take a copyrighted song, rip the audio, rip the album art, paste them together in movie maker or youtube studio, and post a video, you are certainly infringing all sorts of copyright laws. On the other hand, if you are playing clips of the song to illustrate your criticism of the work, that's fair use. It's actually, in Beato's case, almost the textbook definition of fair use. Coming back to the four point precedent:

1. How transformative is the work? Well, watching Beato's video doesn't substitute listening to the song in any way. Beato offers tons of information about the song that the typical listener doesn't get from simply listening to it.
2. What is the nature of the information being reproduced? The clips he uses are definitely 100% copyrighted material. But there are also plenty of other bits of information from other sources, including public domain information inserted into the videos.
3. What portion of the material is being reproduced and how sustainable is the copy? He's taking clips. You don't hear the entire song. But there are lots of clips, so it's probably a large proportion. The copy is posted on youtube forever.
4. What is the effect on the original work's value? This is the biggest one for me - if anything, it makes people more likely to value the song. It's clear that the experience of listening to the song and watching Beato pick the song apart serve two completely different purposes, so one is no replacement for the other. People interested in what makes a song great probably already bought the song, but, if not, they are more likely to buy it after watching a ten minute video about why it's so great.

So, out of four points, WMTSG scores probably 3.5. We know from other cases that the tipping point is typically somewhere between 0.5-2.5, depending on how strict the judge is, and whether there are other circumstances taken into account or not, so I'd be pretty shocked if a real judge in a real court would find Beato guilty of copyright infringement with that series.

Personally, in the past I had posted some videos on youtube of myself covering copyrighted songs. Sometimes the entire song. I never used any parts of the original recordings, but the songs themselves were definitely copyrighted. At the time, I considered it transformative because I was playing my own take on it, you know, like not a direct copy cover but where I used the same lyrics and altered the genre of the song or drastically altered the style of the vocal delivery and altered the guitar parts. That's probably score more like a 1.0 out of 4 using our tests, so I was most likely in the wrong for doing that. But youtube only ever punished me for one of them, where I did an AC/DC song as a request from a subscriber. I think youtube was correct in their assessment; however, you and I and just about everyone else knows that this punishment wasn't so much because of any of the stuff I just explained. It was very very likely because my channel was growing just large enough to get on their radar, and AC/DC has a label that is very aggressive about youtube videos.

Such ended my super short youtube career, as my channel was demonetized and has remained such ever since (this was circa 2012). Probably if I had stuck with metal versions of obscure songs and obscure versions of (not as popular) metal songs, I would be raking in that sweet, sweet $40/month from being a mid-level youtuber. :lol: I kid, but only sorta...
I’m not an IP judge, but I agree that the reaction videos are in the wrong and Beato’s videos would fall under fair use due to their limited use of the copyrighted material for educational purposes.
 

wheresthefbomb

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one of the hidden dangers of working in a public school is that when you go to the folk festival all stoned and happy thinking you're minding your own adult-ass business, random 11-year-olds will be like "HI MR FORREST!" and then you're having a conversation about hair and bicycles with a child while you think over and over in your head, "I am way too fucking high to be talking about hair and bicycles with a child."

I definitely remember my friends and I hassling the high school band teacher when he would be at music festivals obviously drunk and stoned trying to mind his own adult-ass business so I probably had it coming
 

Hollowway

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one of the hidden dangers of working in a public school is that when you go to the folk festival all stoned and happy thinking you're minding your own adult-ass business, random 11-year-olds will be like "HI MR FORREST!" and then you're having a conversation about hair and bicycles with a child while you think over and over in your head, "I am way too fucking high to be talking about hair and bicycles with a child."

I definitely remember my friends and I hassling the high school band teacher when he would be at music festivals obviously drunk and stoned trying to mind his own adult-ass business so I probably had it coming
I love absolutely every part of this.
 

High Plains Drifter

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Totally agree with @KnightBrolaire

Unfortunately though, my fat ass craved these a few years ago. The end result was an open can, about half of them cooked and eaten... the rest just thrown in the trash, and me sitting on the toilet lamenting my weakness and begging the true tamale gods to have mercy upon my bowels for such woeful indiscretion. Haven't had em since and prolly never will again.

I actually think that it was one of those things where I saw em in the store and had some weird nostalgia flashback to my college days or something and just did what I knew wasn't right.
 

Seabeast2000

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Totally agree with @KnightBrolaire

Unfortunately though, my fat ass craved these a few years ago. The end result was an open can, about half of them cooked and eaten... the rest just thrown in the trash, and me sitting on the toilet lamenting my weakness and begging the true tamale gods to have mercy upon my bowels for such woeful indiscretion. Haven't had em since and prolly never will again.

I actually think that it was one of those things where I saw em in the store and had some weird nostalgia flashback to my college days or something and just did what I knew wasn't right.
Same situation. I remember downing a can here and there as a kid. Cannot remember when I last had them.
 

tedtan

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Fresh tamales are the way go. But we’re spoiled here in Texas; good, fresh tamales are available on every other corner.

And spicy pork is the way to go if you’ve never had them.
 

Crungy

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Is it grandma's making them in Texas? I have a hard time knowing they'll be good if anyone but grandmother makes them.
 

High Plains Drifter

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Is it grandma's making them in Texas? I have a hard time knowing they'll be good if anyone but grandmother makes them.
In just about every box-store or grocery parking lot on any given day of the week you'll be approached by a child who's mother and/ or grandmother has made and is selling fresh tamales. You buy em by the dozen/ half dozen. I got violently ill some years ago after consuming a few that I had bought in that scenario. I'll never get em again but in the store there a ton of good options for tamales. Pretty risky buying food from a stranger in a parking lot lol... who'da thought?
 

wheresthefbomb

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one of the hidden dangers of working in a public school is that when you go to the folk festival all stoned and happy thinking you're minding your own adult-ass business, random 11-year-olds will be like "HI MR FORREST!" and then you're having a conversation about hair and bicycles with a child while you think over and over in your head, "I am way too fucking high to be talking about hair and bicycles with a child."

I definitely remember my friends and I hassling the high school band teacher when he would be at music festivals obviously drunk and stoned trying to mind his own adult-ass business so I probably had it coming

Got another one today (different kid). Walking into the pawn shop, higher than giraffe pussy minding my own adult-ass business and what do I hear from the parking lot behind me? "WHAT'S UP MR FORREST!!!"

Our interactions in school were more often disciplinary than I would've liked, I'm glad he still liked me well enough to harass me in public because I certainly tried to build rapport with him when I wasn't telling him to stop being a little jerkweasel.
 

bostjan

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Man, where I went to secondary school/high school, some of the teachers were clinically insane. Sure, I bet all schools have the teachers who are weird, but I've got some stories for anyone who's interested.

There was one guy who taught English one year. He seemed like a pretty cool guy. Maybe late-20's or 30-ish. He had a beard, which was very unusual for my school. Anyway, his wife had a miscarriage, which really got my empathy going - that's got to be one of the worst things to face in life, but, after that, the guy was just really mean to some of the students, and it seemed like the ones who faced his anger were just arbitrarily chosen.

I guess I was one that he chose. One day, he told me to stay after class, and then told me that I was possessed by a demon and literally tried to exercise it from me right there in the classroom, while I was late for my next class. It was so weird and surreal and I just didn't have the faintest idea how to react to it. I ended up with an A- in his class, when I was pretty sure that I had earned an A, but I was too frightened to confront him about it. I guess one of the others he chose to pick on complained to the principal or something, because he was let go at the end of the school year. I just know his firing had nothing directly to do with me.

About 3-4 years later, I was an adult working in a restaurant. He happened to walk in to dine, and acted just as if he had been my best friend. I'm sure he was just back to the manic version of himself and it was authentic (as far as that can go), but it was really weird having all of those memories come back with him acting like nothing weird ever happened.
 

Seabeast2000

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Fresh tamales are the way go. But we’re spoiled here in Texas; good, fresh tamales are available on every other corner.

And spicy pork is the way to go if you’ve never had them.
True, living in the Tamale Belt is a perk.

Lard based tamales made by a Nana (known Nana, not rando Nana) are my recommendation. Red Chile, Green, whatever.
 


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