NGD - A not so merry christmas - Acacia Romulus Multiscale 8 content

Discussion in 'Extended Range Guitars' started by codyblast, Dec 26, 2013.

  1. OmegaSlayer

    OmegaSlayer SS.org Regular

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    I think you and Ormsby should get in touch and start speaking about starting this guild.
    I think you can quite confidently contact Galeazzo Frudua, he's not on this board and I don't know him personally but he seems the kind of guy that is nice, proud of his work/service and that doesn't like people to get scammed.

    Dylan Humphries from Daemoness is another dead serious guy about his working ethics and would accept a guild imho.

    You know, you need a little snowball to start an avalanche.
    Eventually seeing people accepting some work ethics and making it a "branded standard" will force people to join the guild and comply.

    But...maybe it would be interesting to open a thread here and ask people who wouldn't feel at ease to buy a custom luthiery guitar, how they would feel if there was some kind of guild endorsing working ethics to protect the customer.
     
  2. Acme

    Acme SS.org Regular

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    You realize that codyblast is from Australia, right?
     
  3. OmegaSlayer

    OmegaSlayer SS.org Regular

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    Do you realize you haven't read some posts? :cool:
     
  4. xwmucradiox

    xwmucradiox sweep.tap.sweep

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    What benefits would the guild offer to luthiers? At the moment it seems like a society for shaming builders over poor workmanship but I dont think anyone is going to pay to join nor want to be formally associated with such a negative group.
     
  5. hardvalve

    hardvalve SS.org Regular

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    I just had a bad experience with a custom guitar. 14 months, was supposed to be 3, 2 cracks in body alongside the neck pocket, clearly had finish put over the cracks. Huge gap in neck pocket, horribly cut electronics cavity, and poor poly finish that was supposed to be tung oil. Neck fretted out on the high E above the 7th fret. Gorgeous woods, that were butchered by this guy. The neck is salvageable, and having a local luthier friend make a new body for the neck.

    Fretsong headless guitars. I got a partial refund, not even enough to cover the cost of the new body. Baritone 28.5 ( Should have been 28.6). More excuses than you can imagine, then sent me a guitar Squier would not have allowed out their door. Important they are held accountable.
     
  6. ormsby guitars

    ormsby guitars SS.org Regular

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    It would be a group of luthiers that hold the same high regard for service, accountability and quality. There would be a free trade of information, support and encouragement. It would be peer controlled. Same as a cabinet makers guild. Same as a master builders association. Same as the many groups around the world that strive to better their trade by working with each other.

    Or, you could just have what we already have. And that's f&$k all.

    I've got a local clown that advertises my products second hand, to trade off my goodwill. When a customer calls him "yeah mate, sorry, it just sold... But I can make you one just the same, but cheaper". It's cheaper alright. He also happens to be promoting a musician who wrongly believes she plays one of his instruments, an instrument of the type he's never built before, but is more that happy to take your money to experiment. And you know what? You can't stop him. But a guild could provide a warning. Education. Even events or publications to inform people of how to spot a crook. If any single luthier did that he'd face criticism. Same as I did for pointing out blatant faults in the work of the very company this thread is about, six months ago.

    We've got guys taking money and running. We've got guys doing subpar work. No one is accountable. Only their personal ethics to live by. Those that have hard earned their reputation are less willing to go on a limb. I do it. I want the industry to improve. I want to leave this industry in a better shape than it is now.

    The only luthiers not interested in bettering the trade on behalf of the general public, would be those not worth dealing with.

    But it would be a shit tonne of work.
     
  7. OmegaSlayer

    OmegaSlayer SS.org Regular

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    wow...no wait...
    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!
    Do you really think that?

    NEGATIVE group my ass.

    There are luthiers that CLEARLY have passion and make their works not only with professionalism, but with LOVE.
    Yeah, I said it.
    LOVE
    Even too much at times.

    It's in the interest of honest luthiers to form a guild to protect their work from people that calls themselves luthiers but they don't even know how to hold a saw or use some spray can instead of finishing an instrument.
     
  8. xwmucradiox

    xwmucradiox sweep.tap.sweep

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    I think you misunderstand the way a guild has to work to be successful. In order to "protect" anything such a group would have to control the ability of others to be called luthiers. More or less like the way only certain real estate agents are actually Realtors. Or how SAG ensures that a certain percentage of actors on any shoot are SAG members. With many trades you cant get a professional license unless you are a guild member or have completed an apprenticeship with a guild member. The group suggested here would just be a group of luthiers banding together presumably to promote each others work and maintain high quality themselves. I seriously doubt this proposed guild would have any clout with non-members.

    Not that its not an honorable idea. I just don't think it would have any effect on the industry.
     
  9. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Set up us the bomb

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    It's the right thing to do. The ethical thing. It's needed. It will be hated, but for bad reasons. I want to see this happen. I would simply make a subreddit (basically a reddit.com subforum) for this. On reddit anyone can make a throwaway account for anonymity in a couple seconds too!
     
  10. RV350ALSCYTHE

    RV350ALSCYTHE SS.org Regular

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    It would be nice if there were a group such as Comsumer Reports that would demo new brands and gear and give comparable reviews of both the product and services side-by-side all in the same media/format.
     
  11. xwmucradiox

    xwmucradiox sweep.tap.sweep

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    Would be cool but its much harder to do with guitars from obscure builders that cost $5000 and take years to get than it is to do with paper towels and appliances.
     
  12. RV350ALSCYTHE

    RV350ALSCYTHE SS.org Regular

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    Agree 100%, my thought was moreso just as "wouldn't it be nice if" kind of statement after considering the timeline in custom guitars :lol:

    By the time the review comes out the company could have shit the bed and are mass selling junk based on previous positive feedback.
     
  13. abandonist

    abandonist Banned

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    I love the idea of a luthier's guild. No one has to join it to call themselves a luthier; it's just a stamp of approval on your work. Like peer reviews. Why would any consumer not want this?
     
  14. Ben.Last

    Ben.Last Formerly Lern2Swim

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    Because it's not effective. There's a reason why guilds require membership in order to use those names.
     
  15. canuck brian

    canuck brian Bowes Guitars Contributor

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    I have to disagree with you here. This website in particular is full of the highest level gear whores and a lot of them have DSLR's and a very keen attention to detail when the guitar is in front of them.

    Honestly, I'm very confident when i ship a guitar, but there's always a thought in the back of my head "maybe i missed something....". That being said, I wouldn't shit the bed like this.
     
  16. will_shred

    will_shred Wannabe audio engineer

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    Making a subreddit seems like the perfect idea. However I highly doubt the cesspool of /r/guitar would endorse it, which would have to happen in order to get any traffic what so ever.
     
  17. canuck brian

    canuck brian Bowes Guitars Contributor

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    How are the people who deem who has the title of "luthier" going to actually judge other luthier's guitars from the other side of the planet? If something like this actually happened and people attempted to enforce it, I'd tell the entire group to kiss my ass for attempting to profit off my hard work and the name I've attempted to establish.

    If you look at Acacia's facebook page, people were practically having a circle jerk over the OP's guitar before seeing his full review. Pretty sure that someone "reviewing" a guitar wouldn't be able to say how decently built it was from just carefully taken pictures.
     
  18. xwmucradiox

    xwmucradiox sweep.tap.sweep

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    Yep. If you wanted to have any sort of peer review system that was worthwhile you would have to constantly be sending guitars around to the group for everyone to judge in person. And who is going to pay for this? Builders would probably just pass the cost of their club onto the customer, who would be suffering longer wait times because the builders would be spending time building guitars for peer review instead of for customers. Guitar shows like the Montreal Guitar Show are probably a better way to manage this sort of idea. Have builders promote each other and look at each others work at the show. But honestly, the market is small and the economy sucks, I doubt many builders would want to lose potential sales to competitors by promoting and announcing approval of their work.
     
  19. abandonist

    abandonist Banned

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    You guys seem to just be arguing against the idea on some strange principle. Who's going to pay for it? Oh yes, there's a solid reason to not do it. Exactly how much do you think this would cost someone to join? Probably $100 a year. No one needs to send anyone guitars. You come across them in being alive, and they are then discussed amongst your peers. It would literally just be a stamp on your page. No one isn't an actor because they're not in SAG. They're just not a SAG-Actor. But let's not actually use that group as a literal comparison since they have little to do with each other.

    Have any of you ever been involved in a craft field before? One where other people see your art and discuss it in a tangible way to gain respect? This really isn't very hard. Don't like the idea? Don't join or support it. Think it'd help further your craft, or add some amount of peace-of-mind when purchasing a guitar? Then look for the stamp.
     
  20. xwmucradiox

    xwmucradiox sweep.tap.sweep

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    What we're saying is that the rubber stamp quality of what is being discussed carries zero weight with us.
     

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