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Discussion in 'Extended Range Guitars' started by codyblast, Dec 26, 2013.
And Skerveseen too...
We're not safe anymore
Oh man, that's just insane...
Tbph, the only real custom guitar shop I 100% trust has got to be Carvin. I'm sure there are other ones, but their customer service is just killer.
Anyways, I'm really sorry to see this, I hope you can get a full refund.
I just want to state my version of what a few other people have said.
You essentially negotiated a $3000 job with a luthier to build a guitar, to which they provided a shit product. If one thing didn't agree with the general consensus for what quality work should be, they have failed you. I don't know who said it earlier, but they were right in saying that they are responsible for their mistakes. It doesn't matter if the building burned down, you gave them money and they have a job to do and they need to do it and do it properly. Hell, if you agreed on a build and included specifications that weren't met, they knew the specification was too difficult in the first place and they should have informed you right then and there that it was going to present a problem.
I've been a small-time custom performance mechanic in my off time for about 4 years now, with about 8 years before that as a general repair mechanic. Of all of the things that I've learned, I've learned that the importance of stressing that I don't know everything there is to know about motorsports (who does?) can't be overstated. I also request that the car/atv owner be present during the initial design and at any point(s) that the design has a significant change. If I'm doing a particular job for the first time, I do it for a pack of cigarettes plus the cost of parts and materials and I still offer a warranty. The reasons for this are one, I'm getting a chance to learn how to do something that I otherwise wouldn't have the chance to, two, I wouldn't pay for a job from an inexperienced mechanic myself, and three, because if I .... up, the guy isn't nearly as screwed over as he would have been had he paid for a potentially shit product. Either way, in the instance that something does go wrong I fix it on my dime.
To be obvious and technical, a professional is someone that is good enough at a skill set that they posses that they can exchange money for services in a total amount that is enough to at least sustain one's self. For these "professionals", they should be held to AT LEAST the same standard as I, a semi-professional. Realistically, they should be held to a much, much higher standard for both moral reasons and business ethics considerations.
To sum it up, I'd fight my ass off to get a refund from these guys. I'd call every second that I had off, send an e-mail every day, send them links to this page, etc. until they agree to refund your money, offer free repairs AND monetary compensation for down time, or provide you with an actual top-quality guitar. I would be relentless. I mean, if I as a mechanic didn't make right the errors that I've made on some of my customer's cars, they would have never came back for more work or referred friends now would they?
Yeah, it's like that saying where a happy customer tells one person. An unhappy customer tells 10. It blows me away, as a non-luthier, non-repair person, that anyone would let something slip through that my unsophisticated eyes can easily detect. It just makes no sense, given what's at stake.
Just checked on Acacia's FB page. You can longer make a new comment, except on existing posts.
and just a little something I came across the other day before it was deleted.
But what really is at stake? Every guitar they have built that Ive seen, has faults. And yet people still blindly throw money at them.
I called a guy to organise for his new custom to be picked up, as I was about to start assembly and setting it up at the time. He arrived not more than two minutes after I cut the neck in half, after dropping it on the floor. It chipped the end of the fretboard. I could have cut it down, or sanded the corner round, and relacquered, but then Id have to make an excuse why it wasnt ready, and why it wasnt square on the end.... the end that really doesnt matter. So i chopped it up. The poor guy was just about in tears, and really pissed off. It took three months to source another 5A birdseye maple neck and get it built (also went overseas for a month...). But, whilst he was pissed off at the time, he knew it would all be forgotten about later on down the track. Within a couple months he'd placed a deposit for a "do whatever you like, go crazy, I have a $5-6k budget" order. He wouldnt have been back if Id compromised.
What these loothiers dont get, is that they can get away with faults for only so long. It takes one guy, not afraid to stand up, and then the flood gates will open. And that stuffs things up for all the guys that go above and beyond... just today I had a conversation with an Enferiolol owner, who is literally stressing over an order he has with me. He's been burnt. He's invested heavily. It didnt work out. It now lives in a closet. And it's effecting his ability to relax, and take in all the enjoyment and anticipation of having a guitar made specially for him.
We need a guild, that can fight on behalf of the client. Where luthiers are held up to answer for their work. If you can't put your work up against the biggest brands in the world (employing minimum wage production line drones), and hold your head high without excuses, go back to being a hobby builder and selling your shit on ebay.
This was the comment I left. Thanks for taking out the name and such, I really appreciate it!
Just to explain why I posted it: I didn't do it to try and troll Acacia or mess with anyone. The Acacia Facebook page is full of nice photographs that, despite having some obvious flaws, can fool people without a trained eye into thinking they are pumping out amazing guitars. I'm sick of companies slapping together guitars from fancy woods and then delivering a shit product. All the while, they take nice photos, fool more people and censor any negative feedback. I fail to see the difference between that and a scam.
I figured it was going to get taken down. It's their right TO take it down. I hoped enough people would have viewed it to at least help a few people make an educated decision. Shit, most people don't even know that the BFR was a total shit show with 1A "flamed" maple tops, horrid neck pockets (that FYI they STILL haven't corrected. Check out the burled carved top on their Facebook), general cosmetic flaws and import level fretwork. I do think their inability to stand up and face their criticism speaks volumes about their integrity as a company.
I, will concede, probably shouldn't have posted it because it may have messed with the OP's ability to get a refund but I hadn't considered it at the time. However, let it be noted that they made a public statement saying they were refunding the money. Proof if the OP ever needs it.
EDIT: Perry said it really well. There needs to be a MODERATED place where people can fully disclose the issues with loothier (I'm totally using this from now on ). Frankly,and this is no one in particular, I hate seeing "NGD: Greatest, flawless guitar ever" followed by a FS thread in a matter of weeks. People are burning their fellow guitarists by not being fully honest. The recent trend is to say "Well, these flaws are not really flaws, more like imperfections." No, they are finish flaws. Own up to it and understand your resale needs to reflect and disclose the imperfection/defect/flaw/whatever.
That's an awesome idea, but...you know, someone must start it
Because things don't get done by themselves.
As much as competition might go, most of you offer products that are different enough even if they appeal to the same core of people.
But I think the overall biggest interest in protecting your works, your ethics and your reputations should be more than enough to overcome the eventual differences.
And I hope your idea will come through since it would greatly help people on the fence (like me) to make a purchase decision much much much easier.
No that would little to nothing to affects the OP's ability to get a refund since you simply asked them to explain why a guitar left their shop in that condition. Now creating a "Acacia victims/villians" article on a website would affect him and every other customer very badly.
Most people just want to keep their head down and not get involved in any trouble. It is dishonest to sell on a guitar then 6 months later tell everyone on the forum that it had tons of flaws and problems but it looks like the majority of guitar players don't pick up on any of these problems.
Because of all the stuff I see cross my bench over the years, and being annoyed at the overall lack of business ethics commonly seen nowadays, I've actually been thinking about hosting a 'Guitar workmanship disclosure forum', or something along those lines which I can moderate - being a professional repairman and not a builder makes me more unbiased/impartial than most, and knowing exactly what I'm looking at, and how it was done.
Companies and builders wouldn't be thrilled, but it would be a win for the consumers buying these instruments and would force the builders into both stepping up their game, being obligated into taking responsibility for their works and satisfying the customer's complaints. Pondering it..maybe.
Just skimmed through this thread (admitting I didn't read the whole thing), and wow. It's really a shame the guitar came in with so many flaws, cause in the one or two shots where you can't see the issues, it actually looks really cool. I was half contemplating PM'ing you about taking it off your hands, cause I know I could fix it up, but I didn't realize you were in AU. Then I saw that Ormsby is fixing it up, and that's just fantastic, good on him for helping out.
My Blackmachine was a ....ing disaster.
^would love to know more.
May you want to tell us more?
dang....nah...aint about that life
I've seen some companies that will insist the OP sent trolls after them and then get really fussy with the refund. Kind of like what S7 started to do with Leonardo's *Boden.
This is also a huge part of the issue. People view criticism as a "attack" on a small business owner. People need to understand that without reviews and full disclosure the wave of loothiers won't be stopping anytime soon.
EDIT: Also, I'm starting to get tired of hearing that Blackmachine has made some really shitty guitars and then everyone backs away after throwing the statement out. I don't doubt that it's true but have the guts to not run into a room, yell something out and then back off without an explanation. It just amounts to slandering the builder.
The way they take the pictures, it isn't really possible to see the flaws, which of course is not surprising at all.
The only flaw that can easily be seen, because it is large, and difficult to not picture it, is the huge gap in the neck pocket.
Can you explain why or is that mostly because you got a Swamp Ash Body instead of a Mahogany and had to pay extra for a case before shipping?
Yeah that really didn't go down to well. Strictly7 handled that situation very badly and look at their reputation now!
The thing here is you are going to see flaws and problems with instruments that 99% of guitarists wouldn't notice or ever know about unless you told them.
The only guitar my luthier/tech has ever been happy with is my Schecter Custom Shop, he was appalled at my Ibanez and the fact they've never fixed the construction + setup problems they've had since the early 90s/late 80s. Now it was nothing that repairs and a very in-depth setup can't fix but it just showed me how knowledgeable techs are and how picky you can be with a guitar that looks/plays and sounds amazing already.
I've posted many times about my Blackmachine problems but QC wise there were a lot of sanding scratches in the ebony top. There was a ton of bright white filler around the binding where the routing was sloppy. The routing around the plate on the back was sloppy. It just wasn't built as well as I would expect a $4000 guitar to be built.
To the guy that did this, that was pretty awesome. Way to stand up for a fellow SS'er!
To the OP, checked back in and it looks like your getting a refund. All for the best. Now you can buy 4x of the new Tosin TAM10's