new Matt Heafy Fishman Fluence pickups

KnightBrolaire

OnlyPointies™
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
18,589
Reaction score
22,559
Location
MN
What kind of amp are you playing on? I don't know what the Fishmans are capable of really outside of sound clips, but I remember seeing Mark Tremonti play through Fender Twins for his clean tone if that helps at all. Pretty much the bar for a great clean tube amp sound.
It could be that the Moderns are just a bit too hot or the EQ is too mid-forward. You could try backing down the pickup height some on the neck pickup and scooping some of the mids for the clean sound on the amp.
ime moderns are pretty high output. They tend to slam the front of amps, so I tend to roll off my volume to get decent cleans.
 

ExplorerMike

60% of the time...it works every time.
Joined
Dec 13, 2018
Messages
142
Reaction score
304
Location
Texas
I’ve got the 7 string Heafy set and like mentioned they are essentially tweaked Moderns with the 3rd voice. I bought a guitar with the 6 string moderns and wanted a 7 string set, and like Matt/Trivium so it worked out. I think they sound great and like mentioned above the 3rd voice really is nice. To my ears the 3rd voice is the closest I’ve heard any split humbucker get to actual single coil sounds. There is a tiny bit of hum when split but nothing like standard single coils. I’m very happy with them.
 

Hoss632

SS.org Regular
Joined
Sep 23, 2020
Messages
922
Reaction score
631
Fishman Moderns are the most overrated piece of equipment in the last 30 years.
The Jim root pups from EMG are far far worse. Probably one of the worst sounding sets I've ever heard, and by far the worst EMG has ever done honestly.
 

lewis

SS.org Regular
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
8,019
Reaction score
4,503
Location
Norfolk, UK
The Jim root pups from EMG are far far worse. Probably one of the worst sounding sets I've ever heard, and by far the worst EMG has ever done honestly.
I've never tried them but they're certainly not an overhyped pickup set like Fishmans are so I don't get your random point?
Infact no EMG set is overhyped. If anything they're underrated given how much incorrect vitriol about them is spewed online.

Modern Metal songs are getting boring. They all sound the same and the tones are identical and then you notice everyone repping Fishmans and there's the answer.

I done a tour cycle where I used Moderns for half and emg 81 for the last half in the same guitar, with the same equipment.

The difference live was night and day yet the Internet would tell me EMGs are shit. People don't use their own ears enough anymore. They take garbage statements online as gospel.
 

Hoss632

SS.org Regular
Joined
Sep 23, 2020
Messages
922
Reaction score
631
I've never tried them but they're certainly not an overhyped pickup set like Fishmans are so I don't get your random point?
Infact no EMG set is overhyped. If anything they're underrated given how much incorrect vitriol about them is spewed online.

Modern Metal songs are getting boring. They all sound the same and the tones are identical and then you notice everyone repping Fishmans and there's the answer.

I done a tour cycle where I used Moderns for half and emg 81 for the last half in the same guitar, with the same equipment.

The difference live was night and day yet the Internet would tell me EMGs are shit. People don't use their own ears enough anymore. They take garbage statements online as gospel.
There's a big difference between over rated and over hyped. But knowing statements you've made in general I know that you mean both when talking pretty much any fishman product. I can name plenty of over rated/hyped pups, I simply chose EMG as my example in this case because that's the company you like most. Main reason EMG isn't over hyped is because they haven't really done anything to warrant any new hype, other than the JR set, which frankly for my ears are not enjoyable at all. The only thing i could say that is under rated about them is that they do have a couple of passive sets for their signature line that are really nice and seem to get no love. Other than that EMG are what they are and they don't stray from that. As far as fishman modern's, I've heard them sound awesome and I've heard them sound bad, pretty much like the 81/85 combo, I've heard it both ways. To your direct comparison in my own experience, I will say that like you I got a tone I liked more out of the 81 than the modern, though I will say the 85 is better than both for me. In the end none of them are for me anyways hence why I'm stuck deciding if I want to sell my guitar with EMG's, or rewire the entire thing for passives.
As far as modern metal stuff goes, I can agree it all is starting to sound similar, and it doesn't matter what pickups are used. A lot of it I think comes down to similar amps, cabs and pedals are being used hence the lack of variety in tones. Just my thoughts on that one.
 

hensh!n

SS.org Regular
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Messages
111
Reaction score
61
Location
California
There's a big difference between over rated and over hyped. But knowing statements you've made in general I know that you mean both when talking pretty much any fishman product. I can name plenty of over rated/hyped pups, I simply chose EMG as my example in this case because that's the company you like most. Main reason EMG isn't over hyped is because they haven't really done anything to warrant any new hype, other than the JR set, which frankly for my ears are not enjoyable at all. The only thing i could say that is under rated about them is that they do have a couple of passive sets for their signature line that are really nice and seem to get no love. Other than that EMG are what they are and they don't stray from that. As far as fishman modern's, I've heard them sound awesome and I've heard them sound bad, pretty much like the 81/85 combo, I've heard it both ways. To your direct comparison in my own experience, I will say that like you I got a tone I liked more out of the 81 than the modern, though I will say the 85 is better than both for me. In the end none of them are for me anyways hence why I'm stuck deciding if I want to sell my guitar with EMG's, or rewire the entire thing for passives.
As far as modern metal stuff goes, I can agree it all is starting to sound similar, and it doesn't matter what pickups are used. A lot of it I think comes down to similar amps, cabs and pedals are being used hence the lack of variety in tones. Just my thoughts on that one.
A lot of truth here. EMG Passives in general are somewhat of the unsung heroes of their lineup. I'm not a huge fan of EMG or Fishman especially, but both can get similar results when running through the same signal chain. I will say that there are many misnomers about Fishman being more "clear", when in fact they're not eve as bright as an EMG 707 (which is often described as "muddy"). Fishmans definitely have more attack and less compression than a typical EMG Active set, but they are still incredibly hot. At that output level to me it makes no sense to throw shade on the competitor saying "less compressed" when it's that hot. Overwound = More Compression. So yeah, there's a lot of myths you have to sort through when it comes to the marketing for the Fishmans. And in general, you get what you get with EMG's which have seemingly garnered a poor reputation lately. Which is a bit sad considered they pioneered the sound that Fishman are seemingly going after with their Modern Set.
 

Spaced Out Ace

SS.org Regular
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
9,447
Reaction score
5,092
Location
Indiana
Enough out of you! Everyone, shut the hell up! EMG passive are horrible! (How the hell can I get cheap passive EMGs if you rightfully point out that they are awesome, and it was the cheaper guitars they were put in that sucked?)
 

Spaced Out Ace

SS.org Regular
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
9,447
Reaction score
5,092
Location
Indiana
A lot of truth here. EMG Passives in general are somewhat of the unsung heroes of their lineup. I'm not a huge fan of EMG or Fishman especially, but both can get similar results when running through the same signal chain. I will say that there are many misnomers about Fishman being more "clear", when in fact they're not eve as bright as an EMG 707 (which is often described as "muddy"). Fishmans definitely have more attack and less compression than a typical EMG Active set, but they are still incredibly hot. At that output level to me it makes no sense to throw shade on the competitor saying "less compressed" when it's that hot. Overwound = More Compression. So yeah, there's a lot of myths you have to sort through when it comes to the marketing for the Fishmans. And in general, you get what you get with EMG's which have seemingly garnered a poor reputation lately. Which is a bit sad considered they pioneered the sound that Fishman are seemingly going after with their Modern Set.
Fuck it. These companies keep trying to challenge EMG for the throne, and then we get awesome new takes on the idea. X series and Retroactives are a result of Blackouts and Fishman Fluence.
 

Mathemagician

SS.org Regular
Joined
Jul 6, 2014
Messages
5,036
Reaction score
4,634
Straight up Fishmans sound hollow. Idk how to describe it. That’s as close as I get to what it sounds like. There’s no “push” from the guitar.
 

MFB

Banned
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
14,413
Reaction score
3,938
Location
Boston, MA
Straight up Fishmans sound hollow. Idk how to describe it. That’s as close as I get to what it sounds like. There’s no “push” from the guitar.

Yeah, hollow/lacking body is a pretty accurate assessment; all I can hear now is that cocked wah and it sounds like there's a high end sizzle to them? Unfortunately they're fucking everywhere and everyone is dialing them in the same, so there's a lack of identity at the moment in my opinion.
 

HeHasTheJazzHands

SS.org Regular
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
32,509
Reaction score
21,177
Location
Louisiana
Yeah, hollow/lacking body is a pretty accurate assessment; all I can hear now is that cocked wah and it sounds like there's a high end sizzle to them? Unfortunately they're fucking everywhere and everyone is dialing them in the same, so there's a lack of identity at the moment in my opinion.
Straight up Fishmans sound hollow. Idk how to describe it. That’s as close as I get to what it sounds like. There’s no “push” from the guitar.

They have a shit-ton of mids and treble, but there's like... no low mid oomph + high end bite. I find it weird how we had people complain for years how the 81/60 set sounds extremely thin and lacking body, yet the Fluences come along and they have even LESS low end and low mids and are somehow the greatest pickup ever. :lol:
 

Spaced Out Ace

SS.org Regular
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
9,447
Reaction score
5,092
Location
Indiana
They have a shit-ton of mids and treble, but there's like... no low mid oomph + high end bite. I find it weird how we had people complain for years how the 81/60 set sounds extremely thin and lacking body, yet the Fluences come along and they have even LESS low end and low mids and are somehow the greatest pickup ever. :lol:
Plus they seem to fail at random on occasion.
 

Mathemagician

SS.org Regular
Joined
Jul 6, 2014
Messages
5,036
Reaction score
4,634
They have a shit-ton of mids and treble, but there's like... no low mid oomph + high end bite. I find it weird how we had people complain for years how the 81/60 set sounds extremely thin and lacking body, yet the Fluences come along and they have even LESS low end and low mids and are somehow the greatest pickup ever. :lol:

This. There’s no low-mids. Like yes I can technically hear all the notes. But they don’t sound fucking rad.

Idk, “thin/empty” that’s all I got. Clearly not a sound engineer, just trying to describe album tones. Which frankly should be over-engineered to sound amazing, imo.
 

lewis

SS.org Regular
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
8,019
Reaction score
4,503
Location
Norfolk, UK
This. There’s no low-mids. Like yes I can technically hear all the notes. But they don’t sound fucking rad.

Idk, “thin/empty” that’s all I got. Clearly not a sound engineer, just trying to describe album tones. Which frankly should be over-engineered to sound amazing, imo.
EMG 81s are a tight asf monster in comparison. And they have absolutely no problem cutting live. I was always sterile, shrill, and struggling to cut live when I've used my Moderns.

To add, this whole "they track faster than EMGs" is just a down right lie.
 

soldierkahn

BAD MAMMA-JAMMA
Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
2,204
Reaction score
1,001
Location
Shelton, WA
I've not played the KSEs, but the typical Moderns have a cocked-wah sound that's usually caused by a sharp mid peak in the 600ish Hz frequency range (if you ever screw around with a PEQ, you can add that quacky snarl to anything). So I guess the KSE smooths out that peak.

I like a bit of that type of sound. V30s add it. The Moderns add it. Etc. But sometimes you want to avoid having too much of it.

Thank you, that actually really helped clear that up for me. Im still rough around the edges when it comes to breaking down individual frequencies for tones. I tend to cut a lot of my bass, push my mids just a tiny bit, and then slowly dial in my highs/presence. So far, the Fishmans have made it the easiest to dial in all of my tones because im starting from the same foundation each time with different accents depending on model and tuning. They're the clearest and quietest of the actives and lets me open my gate up considerably more than I can with other pickups ive used. To me, i dont know why folks call them hype when it does exactly what they say it does **scratches my head**
 

soldierkahn

BAD MAMMA-JAMMA
Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
2,204
Reaction score
1,001
Location
Shelton, WA
What kind of amp are you playing on? I don't know what the Fishmans are capable of really outside of sound clips, but I remember seeing Mark Tremonti play through Fender Twins for his clean tone if that helps at all. Pretty much the bar for a great clean tube amp sound.
It could be that the Moderns are just a bit too hot or the EQ is too mid-forward. You could try backing down the pickup height some on the neck pickup and scooping some of the mids for the clean sound on the amp.

its funny that you mention Mark Tremonti lol. Hes a bit of an icon/idol for me (bring the hate) as far as clean tones are concerned. My current setup is playing through a PRS MT15 when I can get loud, and a Spider V MKII at night for headphone use (i hate living in an apartment as opposed to my old house), but I cant make cleans the same way he does. From what Ive seen of him playing live, his clean tone is mostly in his use of the volume knob on his guitar and the '65 Fender Twin Reverbs he uses for clean. I can do a little bit of that in my dirty tones, where my volume knob is what i use for changing between super tight rhythm tone to wide open high gain lead tone. Cant really get a clean tone just by rolling my volume down though :(
 

soldierkahn

BAD MAMMA-JAMMA
Contributor
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
2,204
Reaction score
1,001
Location
Shelton, WA
ime moderns are pretty high output. They tend to slam the front of amps, so I tend to roll off my volume to get decent cleans.

I do that for my dirty tones. roll the volume down a bit to get my perfect rhythm tone, then roll it all the way up when its time for leads.

But neither the ceramic bridge nor alnico neck foster amazing cleans for me so far, and was kinda hoping the Heafy's might give me another option. Ive already wired up each pickup with the primary voice, secondary voice, V1 Gain on/off, and then split coiling with push pull pots.

on a random side note, i really love the Fishman rechargeable battery threw in my RGA. No more 9vs to deal with lol.
 


Top