Neural DSP teasing something new (Quad Cortex)

Discussion in 'Gear & Equipment' started by HeHasTheJazzHands, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. GunpointMetal

    GunpointMetal SS.org Regular

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    I hate to tell you guys, but modelers are actually pretty easy to use, too. Don't tweak stuff you wouldn't on a normal amp, treat it like a normal amp in that you get it as good as you can and use it and bam, just as easy as an amp. If you're gonna dive down the deep-edit rabbit hole and then complain that this stuff is hard to use, that's entirely on you. Just because there is a button/tab/slider available doesn't mean you have to use it, lol.
     
  2. Wolfhorsky

    Wolfhorsky Regular idiot

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    Tell that to the little devil sitting on my shoulder :lol:
     
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  3. budda

    budda Guiterrorizer Contributor

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  4. MASS DEFECT

    MASS DEFECT SS.ORG Infiltrator

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    Hmmm..not really. I never had to plug my Ax8 to a computer to do presets or rigs save for installing updates. It's actually quite easy to use. I have dedicated amp knobs and x/y switches. The UI does need some work, sure. But Fractal hardware is gig ready. The screen is like a Gameboy but hey, I had this thing since they released it and it has never failed me. Muddy boots, spilled beer, weekly gigs. The design is well thought out. I can't count how MANY TIMES that guard bar saved my set. Even my band mate's AxeII is still roadworthy.
     
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  5. Thaeon

    Thaeon Cosmic Question Asker

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    Sure. You CAN use it that way. However, it doesn't sound as good in the room as an amp does. It sounds like an amp through a mic, through monitors, and it doesn't feel right. Just twisting the amp dials doesn't respond like the amp does. Its a snapshot of a sound. Not a flow of electrons encountering resistance, capacitance, etc. You can get a good sound from them. Sure. But that doesn't mean you can treat them exactly like an amp and expect the same results. Those deeper screens help you to get the rest of the way to affecting the sound more like an actual tone stack on a real amp would. You're still stuck with it sounding like a recorded amp if you're not bypassing the IR portion into a power amp and cab. I have a tendency to try to get a modeler to sound like an amp does in the room. Because that's how I refine my sound. My ears aren't trying to refine the sound as I would hear it in a mix. So I have to tweak to get what I want. Then again to get what I want when recording. With the feel never quite getting to where I'm satisfied, I've never been happy with a modeler in a live situation.

    Edit: I will also add, that I never struggled with the interface on the AxeFX II I used for a couple years.
     
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  6. GunpointMetal

    GunpointMetal SS.org Regular

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    If you want it to sound like a cab moving air in the room the only way to do that is to use a cab moving air in the room. Fighting with something to do something it's not even intended do is basically user error. Anyone plugging in a modeler and using cab models/IRs and expecting to feel and play like an amp next to you while pumping it through studio monitors/floor wedges/FOH is pretty much missing the point entirely. The modeler will sound just as good as the amp/cab you're modeling with the caveat that you monitor the "real thing" through a mic and monitors. If you dial in a sound that you like on stage with the amp controls and a cab, then plug it into an IR of the cab you're using and it sound bad, that means that tone sounds bad through a mic and FOH. It's not the IR sounding bad, or the modeler all of the sudden sounding bad, its a poorly-dialed preset for mic'ing/recording. I just played a show on Friday where a guitarist had GOD AWFUL FOH/in the pit tone, but he was really enjoying himself, so he must have thought it sounded good, even though to everyone else that was hearing the speakers head on or the reproduction of that tone through the PA could hear sharp, fizzly, undefined mud.
     
  7. MASS DEFECT

    MASS DEFECT SS.ORG Infiltrator

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    Unless you use it as an "amp" through a clean power amp and conventional guitar cab. Turning off the speaker sims and running it through a nice power amp gives you that amp in a room feel. I think you can get away with it without deep diving and just using the amp controls like you would a normal amp especially in later quantum version where they got some of the sag values sorted out and baked in each amp model.
     
  8. Thaeon

    Thaeon Cosmic Question Asker

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    You're just making my point for me. I don't want to use a piece of gear like that. TO ME an AxeFX is a reason to ditch all the extra stuff like, amps and cabs. To simplify setup and have a small, self contained rig. To use it with all the same stuff as using an amp defeats the purpose from my perspective. I dial my amps in the room because I know how to make them sound good in a mix that way. Anyone who dials anything in to sound like hot garbage in a group setting is missing the point in general. Again. They can sound really good. I got great sounds out of mine. The process felt too artificial and I wasn't happy with the idea of having to carry around a power amp and cab to make it enjoyable on stage. Might as well have a head and cab at that point in my opinion. I don't honestly care about all the options of having 50 different amps live. If you can't figure out how to make one work well enough for you live, you probably should be learning your gear rather than playing shows.
     
  9. MASS DEFECT

    MASS DEFECT SS.ORG Infiltrator

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    Do it the Metallica way. 4x12 on stage and sims out to FOH. Nothing like a proper cab moving air behind a loud drummer.
     
  10. thrashinbatman

    thrashinbatman SS.org Regular

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    I just don't get it. It sounds like a mic'ed up amp because that's what it's emulating. A mic'ed up amp. If you want it to sound like an amp in the room, there has to be an amp in the room. There's no replacing that. Using a modeler over FOH without a cab onstage is a totally different ballgame than bringing a rig, and has to be dealt with as so. It will never be the same thing.
     
  11. nightlight

    nightlight SS.org Regular

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    Powered Kemper is pretty damn close though, Cab section off and power amp
    feeding cab on stage. Meanwhile, XLR outputs feed FOH.

    It's pretty sick even if you have monitors on stage, actually. One thing I like to do is have my tones dialled in on a flat set of monitors in a tuned room. Then, when I go to the gig environment, I make EQ tweaks that affect only the main outputs.

    Sometimes I'll even do that at the console side of things, if the soundman is decent. It's really important to realise that PA speakers are never FRFR, so those EQ tweaks are essential, other wise you will most likely have fizzy highs and muddy bass.
     
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  12. nightlight

    nightlight SS.org Regular

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    On the QC, it's okay. Let's give them some time (though I'm not giving them any money for now).
     
  13. thrashinbatman

    thrashinbatman SS.org Regular

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    This is the method I use. Kemper feeding FOH and powering a Mesa 4x12. Practically, all it means is that I'm in control of the tone coming from the PA instead of the sound guy. It's pretty great and you get the best of both worlds. I don't think I'd ever go solely Kemper, it feels too weird without cab noise on stage.
     
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  14. Thaeon

    Thaeon Cosmic Question Asker

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    I'd actually like it better if they would take subtract the mic from the IR. Then it would sound good through a monitor on stage. I wanted the AxeFX as a portable solution that would sound like an amp and didn't have to be loud like an amp and didn't have all of the heavy gear. Works well in a studio for me. And other people like it just fine for live. I'm not knocking its use. It just wasn't for me. I gigged it straight to PA. I gigged it with an FRFR. I just didn't want to have to lug around a 412. I've got better tone than I've ever had now though with a head and 112. Quieter stage and I'm able to get the amp into its sweet spot.
     
  15. budda

    budda Guiterrorizer Contributor

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    All this instead of just learning how to dial in the mic'd tone?
     
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  16. GunpointMetal

    GunpointMetal SS.org Regular

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    There is a tangible thing for guitar for a lot people that doesn't exist (whether its actually tangible, or perceived is entirely different discussion) without a real speaker moving air in the way a player expects that somehow means it doesn't sound good....or something....I don't know... play the right notes at the right time and it sounds like music to me.
     
  17. Frostbite

    Frostbite Periphery Shill

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    Music a'int music unless that speaker cab is tickling my prostate. Damn dirty millennials ruining mah music
     
  18. Thaeon

    Thaeon Cosmic Question Asker

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    Its not about the sound really for me. Its about the feel. Modelers are too responsive. Too stiff to me. Speakers seem to exacerbate the perception. For some reason, to me, the sounds coming from the modelers that I've played, just seem flat by comparison. Again, I understand this is perception. I'd LOVE for a modeler to make it so that I don't have to carry all the bullshit around with me. Seriously. My Herbert is fucking heavy. And its loud. And I want my ears to keep functioning. If they can give me the same experience without the volume and weight, shut up and take my money.
     
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  19. Shask

    Shask SS.org Regular

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    I have always thought it was because of how you grew up, and learned to play. I grew up playing actual amps. There is a certain sound and feel that goes along with that, that headphones and FRFR and all that just dont have. It never sounds or feels right to me. However, many younger people growing up now are starting on playing through their PC or iPhone or whatever, so that is what they are used to, and just don't get the "amp in the room" thing.

    Also, it depends on yours goals. Jam for fun? Record for the Mix? Band mix? etc....
     
  20. thrashinbatman

    thrashinbatman SS.org Regular

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    Even if they did remove the mic from the IR (which would involve taking an IR in an entirely different manner because the mic is pretty important to the whole process) and manage to fully model a speaker's response across the entirety of the speaker, not just the cap or edge or whatever, it still wouldn't sound right because monitors don't behave in the same way the actual speaker does. You can't expect a studio monitor to rock the same way even a 2x12 does, and especially not a stage monitor, which isn't even under the expectation of being accurate. It would also sound pretty weird because that's not really the way we listen to guitar speakers.

    Basically, it still wouldn't be the same as into a cabinet, and if anything would be further removed from realism as using an IR of a mic'ed speaker. The closest we've come are the cabs that model speakers, but that on some level is really just trading one heavy piece of kit for another.
     
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