Neural DSP teasing something new (Quad Cortex)

Discussion in 'Gear & Equipment' started by HeHasTheJazzHands, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. axxessdenied

    axxessdenied Arium Addict

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  2. thrashinbatman

    thrashinbatman SS.org Regular

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    I feel like most Kemper bands don't use cabs anymore, and there's just no replacement for a cab on stage pushing air. I've played shows where I was asked to turn the cab down to an absurdly quiet level and the vibe just vanished on stage. You gotta have that pressure from a cab (or cabs) cranked to high heaven. I've seen Exodus several times, they use Kempers into 4 4x12s, and they sound great. Just like tube heads. My Kemper rig into a cab is just like a head as well.
     
  3. olejason

    olejason SS.org Regular

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    Can the QC deliver early Darkthrone tones?
     
  4. Vyn

    Vyn Not a Sparkly Vampire

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    I'd just like to point out that buying this and the Nameless plugin is still far cheaper than getting your hands on a Fortin Meshuggah head. I imagine people will buy it based on that alone.
     
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  5. nightlight

    nightlight SS.org Regular

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    But is the Meshuggah plugin better than the Meshuggah amp? That is the question.

    Does anyone have the Neural plugins and a Kemper? I've heard some people say the plugins are good, but are they Kemper good (again, very subjective)?
     
  6. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire bring out your dead

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    both the plugins and kemper profiles are highly dependent on who's dialing them in. I've gotten very good results out of both and I think the plugins are easily some of the best sounding on the market. The modeling tech that neural is using in their plugins feels a bit more realistic compared to the kemper where it treats any eq changes and such the same, regardless of the amp model.
     
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  7. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    The plug-ins are component models, while the Kemper is end-to-end (like Neural Capture), so your EQ is naturally going to be more destructive in the latter case.
     
  8. Avedas

    Avedas SS.org Regular

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    If they're only using FOH sound/stage monitors and no stage cabs it's going to sound weak up front close to the stage.
     
  9. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire bring out your dead

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    The kemper has global parameters for the eq settings, which is why profiles start to sound extremely similar (and terrible) if you deviate too much from the original profile settings. It's easily the worst aspect of the kemper. I can't wait for a modeler that has a more involved modeling process/actually takes into account how a specific amp's eq/controls function.
     
  10. nightlight

    nightlight SS.org Regular

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    That's really interesting. Better than the Kemper? That would be something. I haven't tried the Neural plugins, so no idea.

    The Kemper is quite amp-like, not 100% compared to real amps, but more than good enough for playing on stage. If the Neural software is better, I'm surprised more people haven't said so.
     
  11. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    I know, but at some point in time your model needs to see the result of some of your amp's EQ changes in order to mimic them. You can do a component model, or you can sit around while you profile your amp like 9^3 times to get a good representation of your tonestack from the "outside".
     
  12. DudeManBrother

    DudeManBrother Hey...how did everybody get in my room?

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    This is why the Kemper is considered a profiler and not a modeler. A digital amp model should be able to cop the tones of the modeled circuit and react to eq changes like the real circuit.

    The Kemper is representing a recorded tone, where the entire signal chain effects the profile. When a mixing engineer gets guitar tracks: he has an arsenal of EQs, compression, etc that have nothing to do with the amp(s) the tracks were recorded with. At some point someone said “this is the guitar tone I want” and the engineer works with it. You are the engineer with the Kemper. You have an arsenal of EQs and compression available to sculpt the tone so that it works for your application; but ultimately you need to have a good base tone profiled to get a result you’re happy with.
     
  13. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire bring out your dead

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    The kemper is great, provided you're not really deviating from the profile very much. The plugins are just better at tolerating eq changes and more in line with how the real amps they're based off of do it. I haven't heard of anyone bothering to tour with plugins at this point, though I imagine it's more than possible now given how good some of them are.


    I was thinking from an ease of use perspective just having the modeler "listen" to the frequency shift as the user turns the knobs one at a time. The harder thing would probably getting it to collate those data points into a coherent model. Then again I'm not a software/engineering guy so I have no idea of what's actually feasible, so I should probably just shut up :lol:
     
  14. HeHasTheJazzHands

    HeHasTheJazzHands greg rulz ok

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  15. Deadpool_25

    Deadpool_25 SS.org Regular

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    Seems like the Quartex (you heard it here first) is reaching toward the Fractal crowd with the component modeling, the Kemper crowd with the capture, the Helix crowd with the UI, and the NDSP Plugin crowd with the dialing simplicity. In other words, trying to incorporate some of the best aspects of the most popular modelers and including top-shelf tones. Solid strategy if you can pull it off.

    I was one of the early adopters of course—it’s my habit—but we’ll see what happens as more details and some videos/demos are released. I accept that asking for a refund is an unlikely, but still quite real, possibility.
     
  16. Deadpool_25

    Deadpool_25 SS.org Regular

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    On the Kemper:
    I haven’t used one, but it seems to me if you want realistic EQ interaction a modeler like AxeFX makes sense. But so many people dial in their amp a certain way and leave it there (especially gigging artists) that a profile that doesn’t really react well to EQ changes would be fine (EQ at FOH for venue-specific adjustments).

    On modelers sounding thin live:
    In my experience (as a person in the crowd) it’s not an issue if there are cabs on stage. Plini was going direct through FOH and also going into a 4x12 powered by a PowerStage. Sounded phenomenal and quite powerful. There have been other examples that sound great with AceFX as well: Sithu Aye, Scale the Summit, Periphery, Intervals, etc. All were using some stage volume.

    I’ve also had to move away from the stage at other shows because the real amps were blowing my face off. I remember an assigned-seats show where I REALLY wished Robben Ford would turn that Dumble down lol.
     
  17. nightlight

    nightlight SS.org Regular

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    That's my experience with the powered Kemper as well. Through studio monitors, it sounds awfully refined and a bit sterile. But through a cab, it's almost like an amp - a bit more refined and not as ballsy, but you can get the same amp in the room feel.

    On the other hand, the crowd loves the hi-fi through PA sound more than a beamy guitar cabinet, so always good to have a combination of both, i.e. cab for stage, line out for PA.
     
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  18. Elric

    Elric SS.org Regular

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    Only the Neural plugins Can be loaded to the QC. It is not some hardware VST loader. Some people seem to think it is for some reason.
     
  19. Shask

    Shask SS.org Regular

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    That is why I could never get into plugins, or even using modelers through monitors and headphones. Very uninspiring, and flat sounding/feeling. It sounds like a recording of an amp, instead of an amp. I have almost always used my Axe-FX through a poweramp and cab for this reason.
     
  20. bmth4111

    bmth4111 SS.org Regular

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    The nameless plugin through monitors sound surprisingly massive little effort.

    I'm really looking forward to the unit but I wish it had a power switch.

    IN the neural dsp live q and a didn't they say something about the latency being 2.5 milliseconds? I wonder if that is perceivable when playing.
     

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