Need help finding a bass

[Screamingdaisy]

Well, I have to pull the trigger at some point. Maybe I should just switch to using a pick instead. I just think it gives such a weak and boring sound, plus it's not cool to play bass with a pick either 😀
But maybe I have to change my approach.

First off, I want to say that I know where you're coming from. When I first started out on bass I had no idea what a bass was actually supposed to sound like, so I didn't know what was good or bad. My recommendation is to not try to find your "forever bass". Just just choose something affordable that you think you'll like and play it for awhile as your ear develops, while playing this bass continue to try other basses so you can figure out what they sound like and whether you like them or not. After a year or so you'll probably start to understand what you like/don't like and can then make educated decisions going forward.

I will tell you that as a former guitar player I ran way too much midrange on bass, and it caused a lot of problems for the guitar players because I can easily blow them out of the water. Be prepared to embrace some tones that you may think sound kind of ugly, but are in fact really good when sat in a mix.


Myself, I'm in the detuned 4 string camp. I like to be able to use the open strings as pedal and passing tones, and IMO that generally works better when I'm in the same or similar tuning to the guitars. As such, I don't really have a lot of use for the B string on a 5 string, and if needed that low B I'd tune a 4 string to BEAD. I don't really see 4 vs 5 strings as a better/worse thing, it's just two different ways to approach a problem and comes down to personal preference.


Strings - I'm not the best guy to ask. I use the same 105-45 set in C that I use in E. Reason being is that as I tune down I want that sludgy, looser string sound. If I tuned down to A I'd probably use a 125 or 130.

That said, one of the reasons for longer scale basses is the higher tension means you can run a thinner B string (better clarity). Even in a standard 45-105 set, the 105 will often sound different than the other three strings. Some people don't mind that, and it drives others up a wall. A standard 130 B string takes that a step further, and becomes more prominent as you increase gage to compensate for lower tunings.

As for disliking the B string on the basses you're trying, some of that could be the amp (I don't know if they're plugging you into something high end or one of the practice amps), and some of it could be your technique (you'll get less buzz with practice), or if you lack a light touch you might require a higher action


As for active electronics, I think they help produce a solid low end. Depending on how you setup the preamp, EMGs with a BTS preamp can scoop some 300Hz while boosting up around 2.4k, which helps add attack and cut without causing a lot of issues with the guitars. They also have a really fast transient response and I like the compression that they add.


When I first started playing bass I fully intended on being an "elitist fingers only douchebag" (those were my exact words, said semi-jokingly at the time), but over the years I've gradually brought in more pick and with my current band am probably about 60% pick because it's the right sound for those songs in this band.

What was said above about increasing attack by bouncing the strings off the frets when playing fingerstyle is 100% something you should learn. It will put more definition on your attack so that you cut a bit harder in the mix when you want to sound more aggressive. Even if you don't 100% embrace it as "your sound" it's another tool you'll have in your toolbox should you need it.

If using a pick is producing a weak/boring sound you probably need to hit the strings harder (and possibly EQ your amp better). Some of the distortion you hear on some bassists is the fret clank. You can dig in and bounce them off the frets with your pick as well, and adding distortion will put some chunk on the sound. I use a thinner Dunlop Tortex (.73 or .88), and the sound of the pick being chewed up by the strings is a part of my sound.


Also, consider picking up a Bass Driver DI. IMO, it's a jack of trades for any bass player. It sounds a little ugly on it's own, but it hits all the right frequencies and works really well in a mix.

 

[Hexer]

Totally agree that 4string vs 5string is not a question of what is better! It's different ways and preferences.
When I was a guitarist, once I got my first 7, I pretty much transitioned to playing 7-strings almost exclusively. That was why, when I started playing bass, I started on a 5-string right away since I was sure that's what I'd want.
Now recently I got a 4-string because I really wanted one and love playing it. I didn't get rid of my 5 though mind you, I'll keep both

 

[Hexer]

oh btw, as far as actually playing bass goes, no matter which bass you get and what your playing style is: Keep in mind that bass stings are much longer and have a lot more mass than guitar strings. That means they are harder to keep under control. Learning to mute strings that aren't supposed to ring and how to use BOTH hands to do that is a big part of developing a clean sound on bass.

 

[DECEMBER]

I have a 34" 5 string bass in drop-A. Strings 148 105 80 65 45. The low A is 27Hz, barely within our range of hearing. It thumps but it doesn't have the sharp attack and punch that the other strings have. It has active alnico pickups, and I think ceramics would probably bring out more clarity. The amp also really matters in this situation. The bass is a Yamaha TRBX505. I want to upgrade the pickups but I've been focusing all my money on my guitar lately.
I also have a Squier Classic Vibe Jaguar bass, 32" scale 4 string. I love the medium scale and the single coil pickups. I'm hoping I can convert them to actives soon.

 

[bostjan]

This is forever the problem with bass guitar - very very few factory-made basses with decent scale lengths.

I haven't bought anything from this guy, but my interest is perked at this thread: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/xtrm-basses-343.341013/ Maybe you can contact him, since he's in Europe, and work something out?

 

[Hexer]

This is forever the problem with bass guitar - very very few factory-made basses with decent scale lengths.

I haven't bought anything from this guy, but my interest is perked at this thread: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/xtrm-basses-343.341013/ Maybe you can contact him, since he's in Europe, and work something out?

cool basses, but over 40" scale length just to play a clean A? Not really neccesary at all IMHO. Plus you'd need really long strings as well. All that for someone who's never played bass before and doesn't know their preferences yet?

I mean it's cool if you wanna play really down low but for A, a readily available 34" or 35" scale length can work fine really. Of course some basses work better than others depending on what you're after.

 

[TheBloodstained]

I just came here to say that it's hard to go wrong with an Ibanez SR of some kind, and Ibanez multiscale is probably a solid choice as well if the budget allows it.

For me personally nothing really beats my Dingwall in sound and performance. I have small hands btw and the 37" Dingwall is no problem whatsoever

 

[bostjan]

cool basses, but over 40" scale length just to play a clean A? Not really neccesary at all IMHO. Plus you'd need really long strings as well. All that for someone who's never played bass before and doesn't know their preferences yet?

I mean it's cool if you wanna play really down low but for A, a readily available 34" or 35" scale length can work fine really. Of course some basses work better than others depending on what you're after.

I agree to an extent. But OP asked for longer scale. There are not many options, so I offered the one of which I was aware in Europe.

That said, I very rarely ever tune below A, and my two main basses are 34-37". And I'd have it that way if I never tuned below a B, even. I just like the clearer tone. But, at the end of the day, you have to choose what works best for you out of what is available and practical.

 

[cardinal]

Probably the best starting place is a 5-string Jbass.

 

[Hexer]

Probably the best starting place is a 5-string Jbass.

should absolutely work.

 

[Alsvartr]

Ibanez EDA905 is cool af and you can usually find them pretty cheap.

 

[onefingersweep]

This is forever the problem with bass guitar - very very few factory-made basses with decent scale lengths.

I haven't bought anything from this guy, but my interest is perked at this thread: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/xtrm-basses-343.341013/ Maybe you can contact him, since he's in Europe, and work something out?

My cousin is a luthier and he has built me one guitar. The more I think of it, I might just let him build me a bass as well. Depends if he wants to do it or not though. Last time I donated all my luthier tools to him for building me the guitar. So it wasn't totally for free.

I've come to the conslusion, by looking at string tension calculators that there's no way I'm going with anything shorter than 37". If I have a custom built I will probably go for a 4-string bass with 37" scale on all strings.

Was browsing around this morning and it was surprisingly easy to find good parts for basses.

 

[Hexer]

My cousin is a luthier and he has built me one guitar. The more I think of it, I might just let him build me a bass as well. Depends if he wants to do it or not though. Last time I donated all my luthier tools to him for building me the guitar. So it wasn't totally for free.

I've come to the conslusion, by looking at string tension calculators that there's no way I'm going with anything shorter than 37". If I have a custom built I will probably go for a 4-string bass with 37" scale on all strings.

Was browsing around this morning and it was surprisingly easy to find good parts for basses.

Best of luck with that project!
Still I think, coming from guitar, only looking at string tensions doesn't tell the whole story.

Bass is a bit of a different beast, plays differently from guitar and all that. The playing technique definitely plays into this as well and in the end, bass-strings will always move more than guitar strings.

One thing I just remembered: Solar has introduced basses some time ago and that includes a 4-string model with 35" scale length (which is unusual. most 4-strings have 34"). I don't remember exactly what the pricing was like but I think it was under 1k at least (I seem to remember somewhere in the 700-800 range? not sure though). Maybe that could be of interest?

EDIT: ok, according to Solar's page, the "baritone" model (4-string with 35" scale) is 899€, maybe a bit expensive just for an experiment.

 

[onefingersweep]

Best of luck with that project!
Still I think, coming from guitar, only looking at string tensions doesn't tell the whole story.

Bass is a bit of a different beast, plays differently from guitar and all that. The playing technique definitely plays into this as well and in the end, bass-strings will always move more than guitar strings.

One thing I just remembered: Solar has introduced basses some time ago and that includes a 4-string model with 35" scale length (which is unusual. most 4-strings have 34"). I don't remember exactly what the pricing was like but I think it was under 1k at least (I seem to remember somewhere in the 700-800 range? not sure though). Maybe that could be of interest?

EDIT: ok, according to Solar's page, the "baritone" model (4-string with 35" scale) is 899€, maybe a bit expensive just for an experiment.

Not sure I understand what you mean, how would it play differently if the tension in A-standard is the same as the tension in B-standard is with a shorter scale?

Having a 35" scale length will result in very loose strings and very thick strings, actually very loose even with cables as strings. I really don't see myself ever playing with string tension like that. I hate loose strings, doesn't matter if it's a bass or guitar.

I don't understand people who can play with loose strings, I never have and I never will.

We'll see what happens. I might actually get a shorter scale bass and just tune it to the same pitch as the guitar. Then just tweak it until it sounds good.
I'm only going to record with this anyways, not going to play live.

 

[bostjan]

Not sure I understand what you mean, how would it play differently if the tension in A-standard is the same as the tension in B-standard is with a shorter scale?

Having a 35" scale length will result in very loose strings and very thick strings, actually very loose even with cables as strings. I really don't see myself ever playing with string tension like that. I hate loose strings, doesn't matter if it's a bass or guitar.

I don't understand people who can play with loose strings, I never have and I never will.

We'll see what happens. I might actually get a shorter scale bass and just tune it to the same pitch as the guitar. Then just tweak it until it sounds good.
I'm only going to record with this anyways, not going to play live.

To each their own.

I feel the same way you do. I get flack on here all of the time for my taste. And rightly so; it's not at all usual.

I've never bought a guitar or a bass and thought "this scale length is too long." Ever. I'm looking to change that at some point, but I especially notice it with bass. The longer the scale of the bass I've tried, the more I've enjoyed the feel and tone. I am not a giant. I'm 1.77 m tall and have small-ish hands and shorter-than-average arms. But I don't get why bass guitars over 35" are so exceedingly rare. Even Warwich's extra-extra long scale basses intended for downtuning are only 35". I'm no luthier, not even close, but I love going on fretfind, and printing templates for crazy long scale basses to tape onto my pine neck mockups to get a feel for whether they'd work or not, and the stretch is never as bad as I expected. I think it boils down to the tradition that Fender made the P-Bass 34" and that was the electric bass that everyone used in the 50's and 60's, and it's as simple as no one thought it was worth going longer. And when a few bass players moaned enough for the industry to finally introduce something longer, we got 35" - not even half a fret longer. Dingwall comes along with 37", about 1.4 frets longer, and virtually everyone agrees that the low B sounds tighter and clearer, but only what, maybe three bass makers have followed? A 4/4 size double bass is 43.4" scale. I guess no one plays those, even professionally, since they are a pain to lug around, but I think it has more to do with the overall length of the instrument than the scale length, since they are acoustic instruments. But the full sized double bass sounds incredible, even compared to the 7/8 size, which is still uncommon.

 

[onefingersweep]

To each their own.

I feel the same way you do. I get flack on here all of the time for my taste. And rightly so; it's not at all usual.

I've never bought a guitar or a bass and thought "this scale length is too long." Ever. I'm looking to change that at some point, but I especially notice it with bass. The longer the scale of the bass I've tried, the more I've enjoyed the feel and tone. I am not a giant. I'm 1.77 m tall and have small-ish hands and shorter-than-average arms. But I don't get why bass guitars over 35" are so exceedingly rare. Even Warwich's extra-extra long scale basses intended for downtuning are only 35". I'm no luthier, not even close, but I love going on fretfind, and printing templates for crazy long scale basses to tape onto my pine neck mockups to get a feel for whether they'd work or not, and the stretch is never as bad as I expected. I think it boils down to the tradition that Fender made the P-Bass 34" and that was the electric bass that everyone used in the 50's and 60's, and it's as simple as no one thought it was worth going longer. And when a few bass players moaned enough for the industry to finally introduce something longer, we got 35" - not even half a fret longer. Dingwall comes along with 37", about 1.4 frets longer, and virtually everyone agrees that the low B sounds tighter and clearer, but only what, maybe three bass makers have followed? A 4/4 size double bass is 43.4" scale. I guess no one plays those, even professionally, since they are a pain to lug around, but I think it has more to do with the overall length of the instrument than the scale length, since they are acoustic instruments. But the full sized double bass sounds incredible, even compared to the 7/8 size, which is still uncommon.

When I was in the store trying basses i also played some standard 25.5" scale length guitars. Which I have played for like 20 years. Except for the last two years when I have only played my warmoth 7-string with 28.625" scale.

I realized that I will never go back to standard scale again. They felt like toys (not in a good way).
I just prefer longer scales I guess. I like the feeling more and the sound.

I was actually shocked how much I disliked them and it was high end guitars like Ibanez Prestige and Fender.

But maybe I shouldn't be surprised. Because from the first minute when I started to play my warmoth I just felt more "home" than ever before with an instrument.

 

[Hexer]

Totally fine to preffer longer scale lengths. I'm not saying they are unplayable because of the length or anything. Far from it.
I've actually never been against longer scales on guitar or whatever other instruments, especially when tuning down. Even in standard 7-string tuning, I preffered to have 26.5" at least.
I recently tried out a bass that a hobby luthier had made that was more or less a Dingwall copy which had something like 37.3" (not sure anymore, something a bit over 37 anyways) on the lowest string and it played just fine.
All I'm saying is: bass strings have more mass and with the long lengths they will move some unless you play by basically only tickling them

A custom one with longer than usual scale might totally work out for you. All I'm saying is that the strings might still move more than you expected.

And yes, the 34" scale it basically just something that bass-makers stuck with since it seemed to work just fine for most players. Think about it: only a fraction of bassists really use lower tunings than low B (even in metal, it's not THAT many compared to the whole crowd). The electric bass guitar is still quite a new instrument historically. took people decades to figure out the variety of playing techniques we use on it today. Sure there is still room for development.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

To each their own.

I feel the same way you do. I get flack on here all of the time for my taste. And rightly so; it's not at all usual.

I've never bought a guitar or a bass and thought "this scale length is too long." Ever. I'm looking to change that at some point, but I especially notice it with bass. The longer the scale of the bass I've tried, the more I've enjoyed the feel and tone. I am not a giant. I'm 1.77 m tall and have small-ish hands and shorter-than-average arms. But I don't get why bass guitars over 35" are so exceedingly rare. Even Warwich's extra-extra long scale basses intended for downtuning are only 35". I'm no luthier, not even close, but I love going on fretfind, and printing templates for crazy long scale basses to tape onto my pine neck mockups to get a feel for whether they'd work or not, and the stretch is never as bad as I expected. I think it boils down to the tradition that Fender made the P-Bass 34" and that was the electric bass that everyone used in the 50's and 60's, and it's as simple as no one thought it was worth going longer. And when a few bass players moaned enough for the industry to finally introduce something longer, we got 35" - not even half a fret longer. Dingwall comes along with 37", about 1.4 frets longer, and virtually everyone agrees that the low B sounds tighter and clearer, but only what, maybe three bass makers have followed? A 4/4 size double bass is 43.4" scale. I guess no one plays those, even professionally, since they are a pain to lug around, but I think it has more to do with the overall length of the instrument than the scale length, since they are acoustic instruments. But the full sized double bass sounds incredible, even compared to the 7/8 size, which is still uncommon.

The stretch doesn’t even need to be long. I'm pretty sure Spector‘s 34” and 35” scale bases are the same length, and that they moved the bridge back an inch to make it happen. The Spector Dimension looks like they stretched the low B as far as they could to the bottom of the body to minimize any increase in length (never actually seen one in person, but I'd love to see pics of one beside a regular Spector for comparison).

I think it comes down to there not being a big demand for change... yet. The 35" 5 string has been around for decades and isn't generally that popular, but the 37" fan fret seems to be gaining some traction outside of the kinds of people that would read SSO.

 

[bostjan]

The stretch doesn’t even need to be long. I'm pretty sure Spector‘s 34” and 35” scale bases are the same length, and that they moved the bridge back an inch to make it happen. The Spector Dimension looks like they stretched the low B as far as they could to the bottom of the body to minimize any increase in length (never actually seen one in person, but I'd love to see pics of one beside a regular Spector for comparison).

I think it comes down to there not being a big demand for change... yet. The 35" 5 string has been around for decades and isn't generally that popular, but the 37" fan fret seems to be gaining some traction outside of the kinds of people that would read SSO.

Yeah, it's totally a niche thing. People on talkbass have been asking about it off and on for over a decade, so it's always been on a few people's minds, evidently.

And I know what you are saying, but, when a full sized upright bass is 43-44" scale, and a traditional bass guitar is ten inches shorter, and then manufacturer's answer to anyone complaining that more length is needed is to add one inch back - I mean, come on. Like, if Tesla announced a EV motorcycle, and it had a range of 50 miles compared to their cars that ~200, and then they made a big deal out of "extended range" and made an option that could go up to 53 miles, people would think that was pretty stupid, right?

 

[Screamingdaisy]

Yeah, it's totally a niche thing. People on talkbass have been asking about it off and on for over a decade, so it's always been on a few people's minds, evidently.

And I know what you are saying, but, when a full sized upright bass is 43-44" scale, and a traditional bass guitar is ten inches shorter, and then manufacturer's answer to anyone complaining that more length is needed is to add one inch back - I mean, come on. Like, if Tesla announced a EV motorcycle, and it had a range of 50 miles compared to their cars that ~200, and then they made a big deal out of "extended range" and made an option that could go up to 53 miles, people would think that was pretty stupid, right?

In fairness, fullsize uprights weren't designed to be slung across your shoulder and worn like a guitar. A compromise had to be reached somewhere, and Fender decided on 34".

Lots of other companies went shorter... possibly the reason Fender became so much more successful.