Need advice on bad deal with a forum member.

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purpledc

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Hello everyone. I would like advice from my fellow guitar players on how to proceed with a trade that went bad on this forum. I have discussed this with max of metal and he and other mods have given me the green light to make this issue public and see how the forum feels the issue should be handled.

Now as a disclaimer the person I had a bad dealing with is a very well respected member of the forum. He has many successful trade and a good reputation. He has stellar feedback which makes this all the more disturbing. For now I would like to leave his name out of it and have this issue be only looked at based on the facts and not anyones friendship or non friendship to this person. Just know he is a well respected member who you would never think would be so much as hard to deal with. I am currently not aware of how to take screen shots of our dealings but I am waiting for information on how to do that so for the time being I will simply tell the story as I know it and try to get feedback on how to move forward.


So some of you may have seen I had a Carvin SH550 up for trade. Well the other day I came across a guitar in the for sale section that I thought I would like and I contacted the seller on this forum to see if he would be interested in a trade. He was unsure and asked for a few days to think it over. I agreed. A few days later I contacted him again and asked if he thought about the trade. He replied that even though he had absolutely no use for the guitar I wanted to trade him he would do it anyhow.

Now he had this guitar for sale on this forum and on ebay and both of his descriptions state that the guitar was in mint, unplayed condition and had absolutely no signs of wear. We agreed to trade and we shipped and both waited.

The day it arrived me and my mother were waiting for the UPS truck to arrive as we were going to do some errands. Mind you Im a disabled single father living with my parents. Not exactly my ideal situation but that is why my mother was and is usually always present. She knew I was particularly excited about this guitar and she came with my to my room carrying the case after I had removed it from the box.

Now Mind you the guitar was packed poorly. It was in a case. An SKB hardshell that is actually in the shape of the guitar and is not rectangular. The guitar was placed in the case and had absolutely no packing material in the case to immobilize the guitar whatsoever. It had the ability to move a good inch and a half front to back which this person denies its ability to do. Now mind you this is a pointy guitar and very little protection is provided for the main point in this case. That guitar unsupported was placed into a box with one end having a very small amount of shrink wrap for cushion and the other end nothing. The box was simply closed and barely fit in the box. Packing peanuts where used on each side of the long neck portion. Most of you should know that packing peanuts are the worst way to support and protect a guitar via shipping.

So fast forward to opening the case. I opened the case with my mother present. She knew I was excited for this guitar and wanted to see it. She was their for the first time of me opening this case. I opened it and we both were taken aback by how good the guitar looked. I pulled it out of the case and turned to show her and the first words out of her mouth were. " I thought you said it was in mint condition?" She pointed and I looked and there was a decent sized chip missing from the tip of the long point of this particular instrument. Not only was it chipped but the finish was also cracked significantly. At that very moment my heart sank and I placed the guitar back in the case and contacted this person i did the trade with. After sending that message I went to the guitar again and found more issues. This time I found a nut that had been filed down and after tuning the guitar up I find that the High E string frets out on the first fret and wont ring out. Trying to look for the problem I also discover that the first 6 sharktooth inlays are lifting out of the fretboard significantly. You can press them in and they pop right back out. So I contact the seller again on both these issues. I offer to send pictures documenting the issues.

He replies that he feels it is really weird as he sent it in perfect condition. Claiming that the guitar was only out of its case once since he had it. So I go quickly and take the best shots of the damages that I could and send them to him within minutes of his request.

He replies stating that he has talked with one of his mod friends and they both feel that the inlays were due to temp and humidity issues and that he knows that the guitar was shipped in perfect condition. He completely dismisses the chipped paint. At this point I have asked that we simply trade guitars back and call it a day. If its was shipping damage he can file a claim and get his money. I dont think thats possible due to how poorly it was packed but thats what he said he would try and do. He refused this request and states that he knows that the guitar was perfect when He sent it and that if I want to go to guitar center and get a estimate to have the inlays glued back in and he will pay for it.

I found this unacceptable and stated that even if I had the inlays glued in it wont repair the damaged paint. And it wont replace the nut and do a full set up on the guitar. He replied that I had 2 options.

1. Take the guitar in to a shop to get the inlays checked out and repaired

2. File a UPS claim for damages.

Now at this point im getting frustrated and dont understand why he is being so hard to deal with. My thoughts were, I got a guitar in damaged condition and its not as described. Even if it was UPS damage it was packaged poorly by him and I didnt understand why I had to suffer because of that and wait to see if 1 UPS even honors the claim and 2 how long that would actually take while he has my near perfect instrument I gave him. It just didnt seem fair.

So I admit Im not doing the best job at keeping my cool. Im using caps at certain times wanting to know why he is saying he will only pay for the inlays and wont give me my trade back. Now mind you, I have no reason to lie. My reputation is just as good as his on other forums. I may be newer here but im not new everywhere. I have 100% positive feedback in all my transactions.

Longs story short this person has made it clear that he feels I have fabricated this story because I had traders remorse and simply want my guitar back. He has stated that in his opinion the guitar was not damaged in shipping and that it looked like I smacked it on a coffee table and wanted him to pay for it. Now the reason why he states that he didnt think it happened in shipping was because I said that I could not find any chips of paint in the case. But this case is a V shaped case and the paint chips could have been swallowed by the lining. Now mind you this is a completely baseless accusation on his part. He insists that the guitar left him in perfect condition. That it was only out of the case once and then stayed packed away until he sent it to me.

So for him to tell me that he feels I did this then he is accusing me of

1. fraud
2. Damaging the guitar on purpose
3. Lying about the damage to get my property returned.

If I was going to rip this guy off I wouldnt have sent my guitar to begin with. Even if I got my guitar back I would still be out $70 shipping just to have my guitar take tour across the country. This wasnt about getting my guitar back. It was about being fair. And my thoughts were that even if he DID repair the guitar its not what we agreed on. We agreed on his new guitar for my more expensive used guitar. My thought was the item arrived not as described so the deal is off. He isnt having it and is not accepting any other alternatives but for him to fix the inlays and file a damage claim. And again that claim is bogus as he packed it poorly.

This person seems to me to have a poor memory. I question whether the guitar was infact in that condition because he also stated that the guitar came with "case candy" I brought up the fact that the only thing in the case was a small bag with two keys and 4 dessicant packs and he feels im lying about that as well.

So I ask you all if this was you what would you do?
 

purpledc

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He claims he has pictures proving that the guitar was in perfect condition. Mind you time has passed since he took those pics. He did NOT inpect the guitar before sending it to me. These are my pics showing the damage. The damage he claims either I caused or it was caused by UPS. I feel that since he packed the guitar poorly that he should have to be the one to take it up with UPS and wait and see if they will compensate him. He feels I just want my guitar back. I asked if he had anything else he would trade instead as I dont care about my original guitar I just believe in what is fair. Should I really have to wait for a UPS claim when he packed the guitar poorly? And we agreed on a trade based on the condition that his was NEW condition. Not damaged and not repaired. Here are my pictures.

Jacksonstarsdamage008.jpg


Jacksonstarsdamage007.jpg


Jacksonstarsdamage005.jpg


Jacksonstarsdamage006.jpg


Jacksonstarsdamage004.jpg


Jacksonstarsdamage003.jpg


Jacksonstarsdamage002.jpg


Jacksonstarsdamage009.jpg
 

SpaceDock

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I think he should refund you and pay for the return shipping. He is obviously at fault and ups won't cover damage caused by poor packing. He should be feel lucky you're not completely outing him right now.
 

highlordmugfug

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He packed it poorly. If I were him, since it's obviously not mint condition, I'd either trade back and apologize that it was damaged in shipping (because I wouldn't knowingly ship something in a condition other than described) or pay to fix the inlays plus some extra cash or gear to make up for the paint chips (I don't normally care half of a damn about paint chips, but it's not cool to not mention them if they're there).
 

Adam Of Angels

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The bottom line here is, if UPS denies the claim, that means that the guitar was not properly packaged, and the shipper is then responsible for any and all damage. I once shipped a brand new Jackson PC1 to a guy... It was damaged in shipping, and UPS denied the claim. I coughed up $2000 immediately and kept the broken guitar. It's not a pleasant experience, but it's the honorable thing to do.
 

purpledc

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Here is my thoughts.

He says the guitar was perfect when he sent it. And that fine. Ill give the benefit of the doubt on that. But if its packaged poorly, case or no case and it arrives damaged then I dont see why I would be the one to have to wait for compensation from the shipping company. This whole ordeal seems to be based on the premise that he feels I have fabricated not only the story of the damages but actually went so far as to damage the guitar intentionally to back my claim. Or he has said that possibly I damaged it myself while inspecting it and want to get out of it. He says it looks like it took a hit to a coffee table. Both of these accusations are completely baseless. He is accusing me of lying and of fraud for absolutely no reason. He claims that my stories have changed that originally I said It couldnt have happened in shipping and now im saying that it was. For the record I never said that it couldnt. I fully disclosed that I couldn not find the missing chips of paint in the case so I thought just maybe something might have happened on his end and he forgot. Or maybe someone handled the guitar and he didnt know about it. I NEVER thought I would catch this much grief over it. I swear on my mothers life, my 3 year old daughters life and my own that I did not in any way shape or form damage this guitar and everything I have told this person about my experience to be the absolute truth. And I simply dont feel he has presented a fair solution to the dilemma. This isnt trading remorse. Its just about being fair.
 

purpledc

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some extra cash or gear to make up for the paint chips (I don't normally care half of a damn about paint chips, but it's not cool to not mention them if they're there).


I get what your saying here. Compensation in some way. But the perspective im taking on it was we agreed my excellent condition guitar for his brand new unplayed condition guitar. The reason i was getting rid of my trade to begin with was actually because I did put a ding in it and chips bother the crap out of me when i do them. That is why I knowingly did a trade straight across for a guitar that was of lesser value. It was ALL based on condition. And the agreement never included a damaged and subsequently repaired guitar. My thoughts were that the terms of the agreement were not met for whatever reason and therefore the agreement should be dissolved and respective properties returned. But to be told that I am simply suffering buyers remorse and that It looks like I smacked it on a table? with what proof?
 

VBCheeseGrater

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It seems a bit odd that those chips shown in the pics would happen in a hard case - perhaps i haven't shipped enough guitars, but seems the hard case would protect against stuff like that. How do those kind of chips happen in a padded hard case?
 

purpledc

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It seems a bit odd that those chips shown in the pics would happen in a hard case - perhaps i haven't shipped enough guitars, but seems the hard case would protect against stuff like that. How do those kind of chips happen in a padded hard case?


This particular case is not very well padded in the area where the chips occured. The guitar can move back and forth in the case. And with enough force it theoretically should be able to hit the metal frame where the case closes. The odd thing is that this case has a piece of scrap rubber or rubber tread from a carpet that was wedged in that area to prevent something like this from happening. But even that rubber is on the hard side. If you have ever seen how UPS treats things its not impossible. This is why I asked the previous owner if 1. anyone could have had access to the guitar from the time he took the pictures to the time he shipped it. He states no. And 2. I asked if he ever had more that one of these or knew someone who had one and maybe they got mixed up. This he also stated was not a possibility. So honestly, I cannot say exactly how it happened. The ONLY thing I can say without a doubt is that I did not damage this guitar intentionally or unintentionally. And I dont want to speculate on the previous owners integrity and statements. He claims he had no hand in it and that no one he knew possibly had a hand in it. I know for sure I had no hand in it. So the only explanation after that is shipping damage. And with the way it was packed UPS will most surely deny the claim. And lets say they do. We all know how long that takes. And they will take the guitar and its packing to investigate. All the while I have nothing to show for the trade. I simply felt and still feel the the quickest and fair way to handle this is to either give me back my guitar in the condition I sent it or offer something else in trade as what I got wasnt what we agreed on. And even if the guitar I did get were to be repaired, we struck a deal for a new guitar. Not a repaired one. And he still has no basis to accuse me of wrong doing. Its merely his wishful thinking.
 

Corrosion

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It happens when you work at fedex, see thousands of boxes a day, and throw(fragile = hurl violently, lol, jk) them on to the conveyor belt to meet a deadline that is unrealistic and at times cruel... if you only knew how many boxes come into the plant damaged, or the retarded way people pack things(i saw a guitar packed in a duffle bag once, that was obviously broken as the bag was ripped so you could see inside), you wouldn't be a bit surprised.
Good luck, and I hope it gets resolved... this is not a situation I would want to be in.

Oh, and 100% they won't accept your claim, as it's the shipper's fault and insurance does not cover improper packaging, which they have a specific document detailing the only way it is acceptable to be packed for it to be insured.
 

purpledc

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I agree that those do not look like shipping-damage chips.


And I agree with you too. But I also dont like pointing the finger and calling someone a liar. And I know honestly is what he has built his reputation on and so have I. My own mother is my witness. And as much as my mom loves me she aint about to lie for me over a guitar.
 

rectifryer

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Regardless a UPS claim needs to get filled out ASAP.

After that your options will become clear. He said, she said is not relevant as it holds no weight with getting your money back.
 

Thyber

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you guys should've shipped insured. would've made this situation obsolete.
 

VBCheeseGrater

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I used to work at RPS (now Fed Ex Ground i believe) loading trucks. One thing that some of the low life scum type employees would do is put packages on top of the trucks, and in the morning follow the truck until the package fell off and steal it. Wierd stuff happens to packages i guess
 

Corrosion

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I used to work at RPS (now Fed Ex Ground i believe) loading trucks. One thing that some of the low life scum type employees would do is put packages on top of the trucks, and in the morning follow the truck until the package fell off and steal it. Wierd stuff happens to packages i guess

Lol, we had a guy get about 7 iPads when they first dropped with a similar trick...
 

purpledc

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you guys should've shipped insured. would've made this situation obsolete.


We both shipped insured. The problem is an insurance claim wont hold up if its not packaged properly. This guitar clearly wasnt. And the question remains, how am i responsible for the shipping of a package when It was shipped to me.

Regardless a UPS claim needs to get filled out ASAP.

After that your options will become clear. He said, she said is not relevant as it holds no weight with getting your money back.

I agree with you. But as far as Im aware the claim is the responsibility of the person who did the shipping not the recipient. As im aware I should comply with the shipping company as far as giving the goods back but as far as im aware its up to the person who packed the guitar to file the claim as they know how they packaged it and have the paperwork for the shipping.
 

purpledc

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This Video should be live in about 10 minutes. Its downloading right now. This is to briefly show how the guitar can move in the case and how dangerously close it comes the the metal edge of the case. Now imagine a forceful impact, or repeated forceful impacts.

ZOOM0037 - YouTube
 

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