Music Imperfection [Discussion/rant]

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by USMarine75, Apr 21, 2020.

  1. HungryGuitarStudent

    HungryGuitarStudent SS.org Regular

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    Do you like the music? That’s pretty much all that matters to me anyhow.

    P.S.: pretty sure Manuel F. put the fakery rumours to rest by playing a live set of all the songs that were supposedly “fake”.
     
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  2. fps

    fps Kit

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    I'd argue what has ruined rock music is that bands don't spend any time on their lyrics trying to say something real and true in an individualistic way. I can't remember when I last heard a rock lyric that truly moved me. Maybe Pneuma by Tool. I enjoyed By Definition's Too Cold the other day too. Clutch lyrics are uniformly wonderful. That spirit of integrity and passion is what drew me to rock.
     
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  3. Lorcan Ward

    Lorcan Ward 7slinger

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    As long as it sounds good I don’t mind how it’s done. I do lean towards a bit more studio polish so everything is clearer sounding but that’s mostly cause I like transcribing music. I don’t like when it’s overdone and the guitars have this stutter midi sound where every note is chopped off. That gets fatiguing to listen to.

    I saw him live an he was incredible, playing everything from his Instagram videos as well as any well known virtuoso but his videos are surgically edited with half speed takes and lots of one note punch-ins. No idea why because the guy is an incredible player and could easily play those parts naturally.

    It’s the same with Lucas Mann, he’s also an incredible player and showed as much playing the arpeggios from that controversial live clip in his home studio but the latest ROS album is literally a guitar pro file and he has videos even miming to midi files.

    A lot of people are fine with super editing your album but playing it very well live like Necrophagist but draw the line at miming to super edited guitar tracks for videos aimed at showing off your ability on guitar. The whole “fake guitar” name and shame was going well until Jared Dines F’d the whole thing up but at least more people are aware of it now. Now that it changed much in the end but I do see people being called out when they do make questionable guitar videos.

    For what it’s worth Steve Vai’s live in the Astoria DVD is full of punch ins, edits and in places full sections are completely dubbed over with studio playing. It says a lot when one of the greatest guitar players in the world did that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
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  4. Bloody_Inferno

    Bloody_Inferno Silence is Violence

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    The whole Live Concert albums/DVDs being fixed on post is the biggest lie nobody really talks about but has also come to accept and forgive. For the most part it's fixing all the bum notes and off key moments that always happen duing a human live performance. Othe times it will be recording best performances over the course of multiple nights on a tour. In the Astoria case, that was 2 nights worth of footage to compile and edit.

    Also, while I love thst concert, Vai's camera editing skills are like that of a 12 year old. :lol:
     
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  5. Thaeon

    Thaeon Cosmic Question Asker

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    While it is edited footage, there are still some clams.
     
  6. gunch

    gunch Riff Chugman

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    That's why Epitaph still can't be fucking touched 16 years later. Every time I listen to it I discover something new or cool in the song writing. Also why 90% of techdeath in the last decade is dead boring.
     
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  7. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire only the dead have seen the end of GAS

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    Technicality for the sake of technicality gets old real quick imo, and the guys in Necrophagist knew that. They were technical because the songs demanded it, not just to be wank masters. I'd rather people use tricky but catchy phrasing and play with pacing/atmosphere within a song. My patience for scalar runs and sweeps is basically nonexistent at this point.
    Writing wise there's very little tech that really resonates with me besides some bands like Inferi/Allegaeon/Revocation/Human Abstract/Artificial Brain/Augury/Archspire/Ulcerate. I think all of them are or were doing really interesting things writing wise.
     
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  8. Thaeon

    Thaeon Cosmic Question Asker

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    Dude. Yes.

    Gilmour before Vai all day every day. And I love Vai.

    Weird technical stuff is only really cool when its something really idiosyncratic. Like Marty Friedman's phrasing and bends. When it makes you unmistakable as a player. Otherwise, to me, its just polishing a turd. The magic has to be there first before the flashiness means anything.
     
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  9. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire only the dead have seen the end of GAS

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    I mean I LOOOOVE flashy guitar wankery, but wankery is like sprinkles on ice cream. Just a dash is great, maybe even a big dose occasionally, but nobody wants all sprinkles and no ice cream.
    Perfect example would be the guys in Rings of Saturn. Endless sweeps/tech wankery and breakdowns at 240 bpm or whatever the fuck, and I'm bored to tears by it, versus say Revocation, where Dave is playing equally fast jazzy death metal and it clicks with me. A lot of that for me is his balance of speed/technicality without throwing out the ability to write catchy/memorable riffs.

    Another great example of that would be George Lynch and Warren DeMartini, both of them could shred like motherfuckers, but knew how to rein it in or let loose depending on the context.

    Many extreme metal bands don't seem to understand pacing/building tension over an album imo. Not every song has to be balls to the wall brootz and wank . Early Nile and Morbid Angel were great at setting a tone and then descending into riff laden chaos.
     
  10. Thaeon

    Thaeon Cosmic Question Asker

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    Completely agree. If there's no release to all the tension, what's the point. Give me the space, the build, and then the pay off. Give me some dynamics. Firing all 12 one hundred percent of the time, it gets fatiguing... It's also just bad songwriting...
     
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  11. BIG ND SWEATY

    BIG ND SWEATY Edgy

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    I like everything from the most polished and punched in tech-death like Ring Of Saturn to the shittiest sounding bedroom-black metal like Černý Kov or Alruna. To me, production styles need to fit the genre and mood that the music is trying to get across, Stuff like RoS needs that ultra refined production because anything else isn't going to get their message across as well, I don't listen to them to hear off-notes or the scrapes from their hands and picks on the strings. I listen to them to hear inhuman sounding riffage that is perfect sounding across the board. Same goes for raw/lo-fi black metal, I don't want to hear a guy screeching his head off about how badly he wants to off himself while having crystal clear production. I want to hear what its like inside the guys head with all the voice cracks, off time drum beats, missed notes and suffocating atmosphere, having a production style that sounds like bees buzzing in a tin can helps to convey the true mood of the music.

    I think a lot of people forget that this kind of stuff is all up to personal preference. There's albums out there that go for the super huge and crystal clear production styles that sound like complete shit because it doesn't fit the mood of the music, not being able to properly mix music with that style is also the downfall of quite a few bands who go for that effect too. To think that a certain popular production style is "ruining" a genre is completely absurd to me. All music needs that kind of variety in its sound because if it doesn't then all we'll be left with is stuff that sounds exactly like the top 40 pop songs that every radio station plays these days.

    TL;DR - Who gives a shit, listen to what you like.
     
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  12. c7spheres

    c7spheres GuitArtist

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    :coffee: :cheers: :agreed:
     
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  13. Bloody_Inferno

    Bloody_Inferno Silence is Violence

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    Yes definitely. There is only so much editing you can do without killing the actual 'live aspect' of the performance. Vai would've understood that and stopped at the point where Astoria would've just been a 'best of' compilation of studio recordings.
     
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  14. Thaeon

    Thaeon Cosmic Question Asker

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    Completely agree. He's talked about it before. He added stuff to make the parts more orchestral and to make it the best of his live work. But I don't think that he'd ego serve so much as to remove so many errors as to make it a studio performance. Its a live show. What would be the point?
     
  15. HungryGuitarStudent

    HungryGuitarStudent SS.org Regular

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    Sure, I agree and I hear that in their videos and recordings (punch-ins and potential speedups).

    I guess my comment was more directed at the people who say "fingers can't move like that" and imply that player X can't play this live.

    Yeah, I agree. It's been discussed ad nauseam, but I don't mind punch-ins, speed ups, etc. as long as it sounds good.

    I also don't mind miming if it's not deceptive.

    I admire guys who can play what they record (Richardson, Taranto, etc.).

    If I'm completely honest, I'm annoyed by guys who post virtuoso videos branded as "raw playthroughs" (namely as marketing tools) but use audio editing techniques and deny it.

    These are all personal preferences.

    At the end of the day, to each his own.
     
  16. USMarine75

    USMarine75 The man who is tired of the anus is tired of life Contributor

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    It makes me really appreciate live/real stuff like this...

    Live drumming:


    Live singing:


    Inhuman live guitar playing:
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
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