Multi-scale Question

Discussion in 'Luthiery, Modifications & Customizations' started by coreypla, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire Pointy Gang™

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    Those are just where the production designs I've played/owned have had the parallel frets and felt the most comfortable. I'm sure the 8th fret would be great but for whatever reason nobody has built one with the parallel there. The 7/9th fret parallel with 1.5"-2" fan seems to give you the best of both worlds compared to other versions since the lower registers aren't super fanned and the higher ones aren't as well. It makes chording and soloing pretty reasonable compared to the ibanez I tried which had the parallel at the 12th, which felt very uncomfortable for chording.
     
  2. coreypla

    coreypla SS.org Regular

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    yeah, I get that. I imagine that a parallel fret at the 12th would push a lot of parallelograms out towards the nut. I'm sure a parallel 24th fret FF guitar would look crazy (or a 1st parallel fret too--if these are even barely constructible).

    I'm not the smartest at these things, but is the 9th fret around mid-distance of the fingerboard? That, mathematically, makes the most sense to me for placement...but I'm hardly a luthier. Just fascinated beyond the world by any ergonomic guitar and such....

    ...except true temperament frets....I just can't look at them and love them....yet.
     
  3. Dust_to_Dust

    Dust_to_Dust Mathew

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    I own an Ormsby HypeGTR6, and I don't find the fan too much at all, and my hands are regular man sized hands haha. I can still play it perfectly fine after recovering from a fractured wrist on my fretting hand too.
     
  4. dpm

    dpm Oni Guitars Contributor

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    How a fanned neck feels is a combination of factors, just like standard neck but with more variables thrown in. On a seven with the 1.5" to 2" difference is safe. Any more and you're pushing the ergonomics. The 9th fret area is a good spot for the perpendicular fret, so let's say 7th to 10th is safe. This is for standard-ish guitar scale lengths and string spacing. String spacing isn't discussed enough. I calculate mine from perpendicular spacing at the mid points of the nut and bridge based on standard 43mm nut six string proportions and compensating for string gauge. So ignoring the fan going across the neck the string spacing is 'normal'.

    And Bostjan, I think your 7 is 25" - 27", but I'd have to check the vintage CAD.
     
  5. coreypla

    coreypla SS.org Regular

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    Thats very helpful man! is the 6 that you have their 25.5" to 27.5" ? or is the HypeGTR6 different?
     
  6. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    Here's a video of a little girl playing a strandberg. I think hand size really has very little to do with guitar playing.



    The os6 actually has the parellel at the first fret which pushes the last few frets way out. It takes some getting used to but it's not bad.

    I wouldn't go for 24.75 because I find it really uncomfortable to play on after the 12th fret. The fan would alleviate some of that but I still wouldn't go below a 25. I really hate playing in les Pauls.

    I think 2 inches is really fine. I think if you wanted an even tighter sound on the lows just got for a 26.5 to 28.5 scale. I've thought about doing that before. 8 strings are usually aren't there.

    I have smaller hands but I played a 28.625 baritone for years so none of the fanned stretches are really a problem for me. Grt fret markets though.
     
  7. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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    The FF is a Skervesen Raptor. The fixed scales are a Bernie Sr. BC Rich and Rico Jr SN (before he went downhill). I've also owned 2 other custom shop BC Rich 7 string guitars. Part of my comfort is just the neck profile difference. For example, the BCR C neck profile to me is very similar to Fender and easier to play than Caparison's more D shape. The Skerv has an asymmetric profile, but that doesn't contribute to being a fret off sometimes :) I also played a friend's Boden 7, the action was too high for me to reliably compare, but the Strandberg neck was completely not for me.

    Another point. Slanted pickups... Resale market is pretty much not there. The Raptor has an aftermath, which I can't stand (way too much honkiness and mid for an ash guitar), but I don't want to have to custom order a different pickup just to try something else and hope it sounds more pleasing to me.
     
  8. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    What's the scale on your raptor? 25.5-27 or 25.5 to 26.5? Does it have the abm single saddles? I'll swap you a set of nailbombs if your interested and have a 25.5-27
     
  9. KnightroExpress

    KnightroExpress Guitar Nerd Vendor

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    My 26.5-28" 8 string neck has the 8th fret as parallel. Check your Exploder :D
     
  10. Lemonbaby

    Lemonbaby SS.org Regular

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    @TO: why are you considering a 2“ fan? I built a fanned 7string with only 665mm for the H-string. Works fine (intonation wise)with a 0.10-0.59 set.
     
  11. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire Pointy Gang™

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    ahh my bad ^_^
     
  12. coreypla

    coreypla SS.org Regular

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    Awesome!

    dpm

    Thanks for the support, encouragement, and guidelines. I'll try to stay in that realm. I do have a 27" guitar (non FF) and I can sit down and really ask myself (and the guitar) if I need all that for drop A. I might settle for something a bit less, like a 26.75" but who knows. I don't really need beyond 25.5" for drop A to squeak by, but with more tension comes some really nice articulation of those low notes. Besides, I might want to tune further down later---maybe over time.


    diagrammatiks

    any asian child prodigy video isn't going to hold as an argument for me! lol. but you are right, I know there is a balance between the instrument and how I adapt to it. Play time and perfect practice will overcome those obstacles. I mean, I've seen people without any arms shred on some guitars. I'm sure I could work around a fan that was a bit too far than I'd like!

    I think I've seen that child (or some like it) some girl names Lisa, I think? Shredding polyphia stuff. My dad sends me youtube videos of Tina playing Dr. Viossy compositions. I think its his way of telling me I'm a piece of shit!

    I like the idea of 26.5 to 28.5. I don't know if that's too much for a 7-string in Drop A. Maybe I'm wrong about my logic? I wanted something sub 25.5 for the high strings to get a bit more 'want' out of them. But I think a few people are saying that the frets are too small to be playable? Where should I definitely cut-off the fan for the high strings? is 25" okay? or is 25.25" more what I would want? Sometimes just a little pepper is all you need for perfect breakfast sandwich. You get what I'm trying to say? Over-easy-and-out!


    fantom

    Its a shame that the skerv wasn't what you wanted in terms of playability. Those raptors are really pretty instruments. Do you like the Skervesen, even if it isn't your main guitar? I've seen a bunch of those. They are on my short list of guitar dreams. Along with some other very unique and creative luthiers. I hope to get one at some point!

    I know what you mean about the slanted pickups. I have a BN set from BKP that were going to go into a Boden 7, the new original ones. But there were a few issues with that (luckily Ed got me the $400 deposit back). I know they are gorgeous guitars, as I own one, but at 2k+ its my preference to go full custom, even if its that much more. I'll mention that I don't have this type of cash either...with a low pay job. Basically, I'll be selling my piss at a lemonade stand like that kid in "problem child".

    with the deposit back, but being out the slanted, no holes covered BKP set, I'm about even. I could put them in the Strandberg I do have, but I really like the lace pups in there. So chirpy. If its a good combo don't ruin it, right?


    KnightroExpress and KnightBrolaire

    any preference on the 8th vs 9th parallel frets? Am I wrong that placing it as close to the middle of the fingerboard (I guess judged from the 4th string--for a 7) would be the best way to minimize the fan of the fingerboard itself? Seems right to me, but what do I know?


    Lemonbaby

    Am I TO? I think I'm familiar with OP, but I like it. I'm not necessarily considering a 2" fan, I think thats the max I will go. I'm trying to decide in the realm of a 1" to 2" fan. Hardware might restrict me to a 1" fan. If not, I will likely try something like a 25" to 27" or a 25.25" to 26.75" , etc. etc. Maybe I should go to Guitar Center and see if they have any FF Ibbys and try those out to get an idea (I only have one FF guitar and one FF bass--so not a lot to compare to).

    Got any pics of your build? I'd be awesome to check out!
     
  13. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire Pointy Gang™

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    if you want to minimize the fan then you need to shrink the distances between scales. Honestly if you're only going to be using it in drop a a 25.5-27" fan should be more than enough. If you want the shorter treble scale then 25-26.5" should be plenty comfy for most 7 string tunings. The overall ergonomics of the guitar also influence how the fanned frets feel.
     
  14. Lemonbaby

    Lemonbaby SS.org Regular

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    If you have a big store nearby, that's the best solution. No two guitarists are the same and you might like a model that's unplayable for others...

    I added a link to my build below. The reason for the moderate fan is that I wanted to make the lowest string just long enough to intonate properly while keeping the frets as straight as possible towards the headstock (3rd fret is perpendicular). I chose this location simply because I don't see any ergonomic benefit with fanned frets and 26.5" on the bass string of a 7 is easily enough for tuning to A. The selection of replacement PUs is also drastically reduced if you have slanted pickups in your guitar and want a different sound.

    http://sevenstring.org/threads/guit...-ss-org-pic-heavy.169391/page-23#post-4737176
     
  15. KnightroExpress

    KnightroExpress Guitar Nerd Vendor

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    The parallel fret location determines the relationship between bridge and nut angles, while the overall spread determines the actual 'extremeness' of said angles. For me and my design process, I tend toward a 1-1.5" span (depending on string count) with a bridge angle of 18 degrees, which usually ends up with a 7-9 parallel. That's just what's felt best to me through the pile of prototypes I went through when designing my stuff, so YMMV as with anything in the guitar world.
     
    jemfloral likes this.
  16. KR250

    KR250 Build addict

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    Just reading through this thread, some great info. I just recently re-finished a previous build that is multi-scale (25.5-27" over 7 strings). I set the parallel fret at 6 which is a bit lower than most to make the angle less severe in the lower register, although 1.5" doesn't introduce any huge angles here. This worked great for me and makes it very easy to adjust to playing with. The upper region gets more angle, but most of it is over the low strings where I don't typically play anyway. For comparison I also have an Agile 8 string with a fan from 25.5-29" which pushes the boundary of comfort for me. It has the 8th fret being parallel, which makes chording (outside of bar chords) a bit difficult IMO. It's also quite easy to get lost on the fret board in the higher register with the more extreme fanning on the top end as well.

    I think 1.5-2" fan is perfect for a 7 string, parallel fret placement comes down to what you want to do with the guitar.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  17. laxu

    laxu SS.org Regular

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    I have a 25.5-27" Kiesel Aries AM7 and find it very comfortable. By comparison the 26.5-28" 8-string Strandberg Boden OS 8 wasn't to my liking, but mostly because I felt the longer scale on the high strings didn't feel that great. I expect my upcoming Skervesen Shoggie 8 with 26-28" scale will alleviate that to a degree.
     
  18. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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    Yes to scale and ABM. I will double check when I have a chance. They are black with 10 degree slant IIRC. You piqued my interest, I need to start finding some sound clips of Nailbombs now. Ceramic or AlNiCo? FYI, mine is Aftermath bridge and Emerald neck. The Emerald is very good for clean, might need to think on that one. Let's talk over PM?

    My main guitar, if I even have one, is a 6 string BCR. I bought the Skerv after the BRJ. I always felt the BRJ was good, but not 100% there. I bought a BCR and sold it 2 months later due to a neck issue, but I could tell it was a "better" guitar for me. I played the Skerv more often than the BRJ until I found another BCR. Long story short, I wish I had the Skerv when I was still in a band, but I would be afraid trying to play sweeps/string skipping on it live for sure. The BCR is a much better match for me, but I still play both :)

    LOL at the Problem Child reference. FWIW, I bought the majority of my "expensive" gear when I was a college student making less than $20k. You just have to choose what you spend money on and save up like you are playing Dragon Warrior. I can confidently say that anyone can budget and buy $5000 worth of gear in 2-3 years if they spend wisely. The gear I bought in high school and college has huge sentimental value to me because I had to save for a year or more to buy something I really wanted.
    [/QUOTE]

    Nice
     
  19. Dust_to_Dust

    Dust_to_Dust Mathew

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    It's the 25.5 to 27.5 off the top of my head buddy! I know that the 7 string is a bit longer.
     
  20. DudeManBrother

    DudeManBrother Hey...how did everybody get in my room?

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    I have a 25.5-27 seven string and a 25.5-26.5 six string. The 1.5" on seven is very comfortable but I'd think a 24.75-26.625 would be awesome. Easy to adjust to, good tension on the B string, and that rich harmonic warmth that a short scale provides. Tight articulate low sounds, with buttery lead sounds (talent sold separately)
     
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