Most "Useful" Wiring Options for Crunch Lab/Liquifire (7-string) Combo?

Discussion in 'Pickups, Electronics & General Tech' started by ElRay, May 27, 2021.

  1. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

    Messages:
    3,948
    Likes Received:
    1,135
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Location:
    NoIL
    I've got a Revenger-7 with no electronics in it. I've got Crunch Lab/Liquifire 7-String set, a 5-way Rotary switch, pots, caps and jack. I may off-load this guitar in the not too distant future, so I'm not really looking to buy anything to get it wired-up. Of the possible straightforward combos:
    1. Neck - Series
    2. Neck - Parallel
    3. Inner - Series
    4. Inner - Parallel
    5. Outer - Series
    6. Outer - Parallel
    7. Bridge - Series
    8. Bridge - Parallel
    9. Neck+Bridge - Series/Series
    10. Neck+Bridge - Series/Parallel
    11. Neck+Bridge - Parallel/Parallel
    which five would be the most "useful" together?

    The guitars I have all have pretty vanilla wiring, so outside of (1), (2), (7) & (10), I really don't have a good ear for what the other options would sound like. I rarely use the Humbucker Series/Parallel (typical middle position on a 3-way) setting on any guitar I have, so I'll likely leave that one off.

    Right now, I'm leaning towards:
    1. Neck - Series
    2. Neck - Parallel
    3. ?
    4. ?
    5. Bridge - Series
    and filling in the last two spots would be pure guessing. I'm also semi-guessing about the Neck - Parallel option with the Liquifire, I'm not sure if that will give something unique enough or not.

    If I was sure I'd be keeping this, I'd likely get three 6-ways so I could get all (North, South, parallel-out-of-phase, series-out-of-phase, parallel, series) combinations, without drilling any new holes, and run it straight to the jack.

    EDIT: I'm working under the assumption that the CL7's Bar will be the Inner/North Coil and any pairing with the Liquifire's "Inner" coil will be with it's South Coil, regardless of which is actually mounted facing in or facing out.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2021
    Zhysick likes this.
  2. Zhysick

    Zhysick SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,302
    Likes Received:
    1,319
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Location:
    Tenerife
    Ideally I would keep add to your list

    3. Both splited (bar of the CL, doesn't mind which is the LF but the one in phase)
    4. Bridge splitted (CL bar)

    I like how "bar" humbuckers sound when splittted. Generally better than "pole pieced" humbuckers. The X2N is the best example and the bar coil of the CL is probably going to be very similar to one X2N coils.

    Not sure how doable is considering the neck parallel option with your rotary selector but if it's possible that's what I would do.
     
    ElRay likes this.
  3. odibrom

    odibrom .

    Messages:
    5,158
    Likes Received:
    3,052
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Location:
    ... perto de onde a terra acaba e o mar começa...
    Hey there. Not all the rotary switches allow everything you have there.

    First, I'd make sure the pickups installation has an alternate coil polarity, so you can get (if you so choose) Inner or Outer coils (either in series or parallel) with hum canceling qualities.

    From the options you posted I'd add the coil splits and choose the ones closer to the neck on both pickups.
    So, if possible I'd wire like this:
    1. Neck Series
    2. Neck split (outer coil, closer to the neck)
    3. Inner coils Series - has a middle humbucker feel to it
    4. Bridge split (inner coil, closer to the neck)
    5. Bridge series
    These are my favorite tones out of a 2 hum guitar, specially if loaded with hot pickups.

    I prefer the coil split tones to the hums in parallel due to the spankier and less compressed tones of the single coils, which bring a nice contrast to the hums (in series), but looses a bit of punch/volume... nothing that can't be compensated with a compressor in the chain...
     
    ElRay likes this.
  4. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

    Messages:
    3,948
    Likes Received:
    1,135
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Location:
    NoIL
    That's (3) or (4) Above
    I didn't put in any single coil options because I wanted to keep the hum canceling. I'll see if I can hunt-up any recordings of a CL as a split bridge.
     
  5. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

    Messages:
    3,948
    Likes Received:
    1,135
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Location:
    NoIL
    It's a plain 4-Pole, 5-Way, no internal connections.
    Yup. That's why I listed the ones I did. They're all hum-canceling w/o being too esoteric (e.g., two north coils, out of phase). I'm still thinking of a possible offload and don't want to go to far from "normal". I'm toying with just doing the generic "PRS Wiring" [(1),(6),(5),(4),(7) above], because that's something more easily understood. I'm familiar with, and kinda like, the Neck-parallel, setting from the Ibanez 5-Way. Doing the Ibanez 5-way [(1),(2),(10),(3),(7) above] as a rotary is another "normal" option, but I've never liked the Neck+Bridge - Series/Parallel, aka "middle setting" on any guitar I have.
    I'll have to give the split-coils another think. I was trying to stay hum-canceling.

    Maybe I'll spend a little money and get a 6-way rotary or push-pull pot(s). I was really trying to do this with what's in the parts bin.:facepalm:
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2021
    odibrom likes this.
  6. odibrom

    odibrom .

    Messages:
    5,158
    Likes Received:
    3,052
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Location:
    ... perto de onde a terra acaba e o mar começa...
    In my opinion, the hum problem with coil splits only arises when one has a bit of gain in the sound and IS NOT PLAYING, or is playing LOOOOOONG and quiet notes. They'll have a bit more probability to unwanted feedback, but it's nothing uncontrollable if there are compressors and gates (don't use gates unless there's a problem) in the chain.

    Mid/low gain tones with single coils are awesome, they're a bluesy kind of thing, but one can go into different directions obviously. Clean tones with Neck split is really something to think about and play with.

    If you could jump into my band's Youtube channel (check my sig), you can find some references about some of the possible tones I referred to before.
    • The EPACSE song has the solo done with a bridge split setting with crunch-to-high gain swells in the beginning. First riff is full on bridge in series.
    • The OMSIBA song is mostly played with the Neck Split, either clean (beginning), crunch (different levels, almost all the song, solo included) and High gain, and with some parts with the Bridge pickup in series (high gain only).
    • The S3RT is mostly Neck series (clean and crunch), Inner coils series (crunch), Bridge series (crunch and high gain) in the first part, and piezos (clean) and high gain (solo).
    • The EVARG song has lots of combos. It's mostly Neck series and Bridge series with gain swells, from clean to high gain in both pickups. Solo is neck series pickup only. There's also a mix of piezos and Inner coils in series, either in clean and crunch tones after the solo part.
    • The OCD song is almost all Inner coils in series with high gain and some crunch to high gain swells, cleans are piezos and there's a bit of Bridge in series at the song's end.
    The recordings were made over our knees, as said in the videos' descriptions with a Zoom Q3HD for audio (they have an "in the room" vibe to them) and video was recorded with our cell phones. We're preparing our demo, but it is taking a bit to get the tones for the drums right... The 2019 videos were recorded with alnico5 loaded pickups, guitar plugged straight into the Triaxis, loop for the G-Force, out from the 2:fifty into the 2x 412 cabs seen in the rental rehearsal studio.

    Besides the Piezos, I can get in the same ball park tones with my DiMarzio loaded Universe (original pickups installed but with a way crazier wiring that delivers 73 different combos). The main different is that the overall tones are a bit more dense and get a bit more of distortion than those in the videos...
     
    ElRay likes this.
  7. TheBolivianSniper

    TheBolivianSniper SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    756
    Likes Received:
    743
    Joined:
    May 25, 2020
    Location:
    PA
    I would really recommend wiring in an out of phase position, my favorite being split bridge and full on neck. It really sounds unique and if the CL split is similar to the X2N split it'll sound great. Split bridge is a must tho, bar pickups are fabulous in single mode.
     
    ElRay and odibrom like this.
  8. Zhysick

    Zhysick SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,302
    Likes Received:
    1,319
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Location:
    Tenerife
    That would be 4 for me, my choice I mean, if you like it, of course :lol: I understand about the hum-cancelling choices but as said and The sniper from Bolivia also supported, a bar humbucker splitted in the bridge is a must (I would say you could get convincing tele twang kinda sounds if you EQ it right... consider if you could want that but the versatility is there)
     
    ElRay and odibrom like this.
  9. TheBolivianSniper

    TheBolivianSniper SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    756
    Likes Received:
    743
    Joined:
    May 25, 2020
    Location:
    PA
    Oh no for real, it sounds like a Tele I shit you completely not. It's glorious especially overdriven.
     
    ElRay and Zhysick like this.
  10. Zhysick

    Zhysick SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,302
    Likes Received:
    1,319
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Location:
    Tenerife
    I don't know about the CL but the X2N is the best split humbucker I have ever heard or had. It's amazing, yeah... Some might want to kill me but I prefer that single coil sound over several "vintage appropriate true deal made with unicorn mistical powder" single coils...
     
    ElRay likes this.
  11. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

    Messages:
    3,948
    Likes Received:
    1,135
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Location:
    NoIL
    KISS is not easy for me. Sticking with the already-on-hand 5-Way is tough enough for me. Maybe this becomes my "crazy wiring experimental guitar".
     
  12. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

    Messages:
    3,948
    Likes Received:
    1,135
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Location:
    NoIL
    Thanks for the pointers, I'll listen to the videos.

    Regarding:
    I have a Entwistle Nemesis AFGs set (outer Alnico/Screw, inner Ceramic/Bar) that I plan to put in a Mockingbird project I have, with the triple 6-way rotary scheme (6*6*6 minus a few)* sounds.


    *EDIT: I did the math: (6 + 6 + 4*6*6) = 156
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2021
    odibrom likes this.
  13. odibrom

    odibrom .

    Messages:
    5,158
    Likes Received:
    3,052
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Location:
    ... perto de onde a terra acaba e o mar começa...
    A humbucker's single coil is less powerful than a true single coil, thus the high output pickups delivering super nice coil splits. I remember loving the coil splits of D-Activators 7, but not liking that much their series wiring.


    North coil, south coil, both in series or parallel in phase and both in series or parallel out of phase per pickup, plus the same schematic but replacing the coils by the neck and bridge pickups... yah, it's about 156 coil combos out of 2 hums if my math serves me well... 6x6x4+6+6=156...

    I've drawn a schematic for a friend's custom HHH guitar with 1228 combos, but only 4 sounds per humbucker (north, south, series or parallel in phase only), but them the pickup mixes had 6 positions including out of phase combos...
     
    ElRay and Zhysick like this.
  14. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

    Messages:
    3,948
    Likes Received:
    1,135
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Location:
    NoIL
    ... Split-bar ... Split-bar ... Split-bar ... Split-bar ... :rofl: I just hunted-up some videos. This is pretty good with a CL.
    1. Neck-Series
    2. Neck-North (Outer) or Neck-Parallel
    3. Inner (Bar-Pole)-Parallel
    4. Bridge-North (Bar)
    5. Bridge-Series
    I may have to change this to: KISS-M (Keep it Semi-Simple Moron) and buy a 4-pole 6-way rotary and add Outer-Series or Outer-Parallel
     
    odibrom and Zhysick like this.
  15. odibrom

    odibrom .

    Messages:
    5,158
    Likes Received:
    3,052
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Location:
    ... perto de onde a terra acaba e o mar começa...
    Inner coils parallel is Petrucci signature sound as far as I've been reading here and there, and of whom else use may use it. Personally, I found it a bit too soft and prefer the series tone for whatever I use it for.
     
    ElRay likes this.
  16. nickgray

    nickgray SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    945
    Likes Received:
    920
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    I think Ibanez style is the best one.
    1. Bridge series
    2. Bridge + Neck coil split (inner coils)
    3. Bridge + Neck series
    4. Neck parallel
    5. Neck series
    2 and 4 cover a lot of ground for single coil tones while being hum cancelling. Both are amazing for cleans and for light crunch tones. 3 is an overlooked position, you can get a very nice and rich clean tone out of it that's different in character to the usual Neck in series, you just have to back the volume knob a bit and adjust the amp settings to suit it.

    For extra versatility I think you should be able to wire a push-pull for coil split. You'll get Bridge split and Neck split in positions 1 and 5. So it's a total of 7 available tones. The only thing that's lacking in is the Bridge wired in parallel.
     
    ElRay and odibrom like this.
  17. odibrom

    odibrom .

    Messages:
    5,158
    Likes Received:
    3,052
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Location:
    ... perto de onde a terra acaba e o mar começa...
    Ibanez 3rd position is: Neck in series + Bridge in series but their mix is parallel. It is very uncommon to find a dual hum guitar with all coils in series and even less from factory.

    Most of the times, people (and brands are to blame) don't specify correctly what is happening when mixing the 2 hums' 4 coils. Different combos WILL deliver different sounds. For example, a super rare mix is to have both pickups wired internally in parallel, but their mix is in series. It's significantly different to the more common combo of neck and bridge pickups.
     
    ElRay likes this.
  18. ElRay

    ElRay Mostly Harmless

    Messages:
    3,948
    Likes Received:
    1,135
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Location:
    NoIL
    It's got its plusses. I just have never bonded with the Neck+Bridge - Series/Parallel setting on any of the guitars I have.
    If I was 100% keeping the guitar, I would definitely do something like this. I'd most likely to the 156-settings, 3x 4-pole, 6-way, straight to the jack set-up until I figure out what I like. Otherwise, I'd do a 4-way into a series/parallel switch, and based on this thread, I might add a N/B/S Coil-Split switch.
     
    odibrom likes this.

Share This Page