Misha: "just have fun with it"

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by Hollowway, Mar 15, 2018.

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  1. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    @Flappydoodle Just because an 800 lbs gorilla can shake up an industry doesn't mean it needs shaking up. The Mafia shakes up industries, governments and militaries shake up things, and I don't know that those are needing to be shaken up. These industries aren't being shaken up to help the end user. They're being shaken up to make money. That's 100% it. Obviously they harness the end user, because someone has to drive it, but that's hardly the goal. There are solutions to get artists more money. I would say the biggest one is to not keep negotiating less pay per play in order to make the company more money. Call me a communist or socialist, but I think that when a society puts money above all else, we lose a lot of art, culture, and enjoyment along the way.
     
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  2. groverj3

    groverj3 Bioinformagician

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    I'm doing my best not to make too many assumptions about Flappydoodle's character based on that post, but it's not easy.
     
  3. groverj3

    groverj3 Bioinformagician

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    Yeah, that's it exactly. So many people assume that "disrupting" an industry results in a net benefit for everyone. What they don't realize is that in this world the only thing that matters is whether the corporate types are making enough money. That's how every decision at a high enough level is made. Generally speaking, the role of a firm is to extract labor from workers and pay them as little as possible for it. If a company finds a new and exciting way to exploit its workers with few to no repercussions for them, then of course they'll do it.

    In the music industry it only matters that bands/musicians can make enough money to keep putting out music. It doesn't matter to the record labels or spotify that the artists don't actually make anything more than that because it doesn't directly benefit them. They've figured out that artists will still make music for peanuts, so they'll pay them peanuts.

    I'm actually kind of surprised it's not worse. What's the prog/metal listenership like? On a global scale, compared to top 40s? The only reason that labels probably still exist for such bands is that they existed before the rise of spotify and the like and they have "some" pressure on them since they're not diversified into other genres of music. So, again they aren't making enough money, hence paying artists less, and the artists know they have no other option so they do it anyway.
     
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  4. bulb

    bulb SS.org Regular

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    I'm glad you think so, I feel like everyone is ignoring it because they want to yell a lot and be right on the internet haha. To be fair that's par for the course, though!
     
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  5. Cynicanal

    Cynicanal SS.org Regular

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    In order to disrupt an industry and overcome the advantages that incumbents have, a new company has to be doing something to make themselves significantly more attractive to customers. In the case of taxis and hotels, it should be obvious why Uber and Air BnB are more desirable.
     
  6. JSanta

    JSanta SS.org Regular

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    Something to think about (the data is a couple of years old, but still relevant to this discussion).

    https://www.arts.gov/news/2015/surprising-findings-three-new-nea-reports-arts
    http://www.artscouncil.org.uk/sites...d-file/Value_arts_culture_evidence_review.pdf

    I think part of the problem is that as a society we don't view art the way we used to. I'm sure saturation plays a part, but I honestly don't believe we as a society value art and artists the way we did even 30-40 years ago. Anecdotally, I've had conversations with people about why I still buy CDs (because I love physical media), and they comment that it's just music, you can listen for free on Pandora or YouTube or whatever. And I think that's part of the overall problem - access has to an extent devalued the experience of art in general.

    As I get older (and that I moved to a smaller city), I don't generally get out to a show during the week. Many of the artists I really enjoy are charging $100+ for tickets and I can't justify the cost. Am I part of the problem? Absolutely.
     
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  7. Cynicanal

    Cynicanal SS.org Regular

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    Let's be real, normal adults (that is, people who have money) haven't cared about music in the lifetimes of anyone posting here. Rock and pop sales have always been driven by kids and twenty-somethings. Society's view of art didn't change; no one ever really valued music aside for a very brief historical blip where it could be marketed profitably to teenagers.
     
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  8. Lorcan Ward

    Lorcan Ward 7slinger

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    The internet made paying for music unnecessary. I used to have to pay €30-35 for Nuclear Blast albums when I was younger. Now anyone can search and listen to those albums in under half a minute on youtube or spotify. You can't reverse technology so the majority of people are never going to pay for music again, especially anyone growing up, thats how they will listen to music because thats all they know.

    I don't really have anything positive to ad but it is awesome that all these bands that never bothered to play Ireland are finally coming here. I'm sure other countries or cities off the beaten track are experiencing the same thing. Longer tours means members will get burnt out quicker though.

    This is where most artists fail miserably though and only have themselves to blame. A good example is the amount of money there is in selling tablature and lessons, I could make a full time career from it, sheethappenings is a good start but it only scratches the surface of the market. If you're a technically minded player who has legions of fans who play guitar who want to learn your music then why not capitalise on that and sell tabs/lessons.
     
  9. zarg

    zarg SS.org Regular

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    do you guys think they're is a difference between NA and EU in terms of how much money a band makes from touring? I have the feeling that at least here in Europe every show I go to is almost sold out. Additionally there's loads of big festivals here, no idea how much they would pay though compared to a club show.
     
  10. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    WTF? Do you only enjoy Madonna and U2 (and maybe the opera)??
     
  11. ArtDecade

    ArtDecade John Bohlinger's Dank Stash

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    Artists will always create art. It is what they do. That said, the record industry monetized art and sold it to the masses back in the 50s. They blew open the doors off an industry because they were able to cash in on a middle class (especially teens) with disposable income. Sure, they sold records and radios throughout the jazz, swing, and big band era, but never with the numbers they were able to get after WWII. That said, the model broke during the 90s and the floor fell out completely by the early 00s. Again, artists still create art - it is what they do. But, now they are back to being starving artists - a term that has been in use for centuries. There will always be a few that rise to the top, but the time period between the 50s and 90s was an anomaly.
     
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  12. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire only the dead have seen the end of GAS

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    lol I can get opera tickets (at least if it's a matinee) for under 30$ a person.
     
  13. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    ^ I think this idea is why I don't buy much into anything that claims "x is killing music". Music isn't going anywhere, I think people still value music on it's own terms the same as they always have- what's dying is the industry. I think some are just unable to separate the two. Right now music as a business is failing, but music as an art form is thriving, IMO. There's a low barrier to entry, lots of people are creating and consuming, there's tons of variety.

    I don't personally care if there's no money in music. I care that I can make music (I can), others can make music (they can), I can access music (I can), there is an abundance of music to pick from (there is), there are shows to attend (there are) and I can enjoy that music on my own terms (I mostly can). In those terms, music is doing as well as it ever has. You can easily choose to interpret that as a devaluation of music in some ways- to each their own- but the values I care about in music (and that I think a lot of consumers care about) are doing just fine.

    I equally understand that those who value the idea of a career in music won't necessarily share my view.
     
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  14. TonyFlyingSquirrel

    TonyFlyingSquirrel Cherokee Warrior

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    There are more bands in circulation than ever, thus decreasing the marketshare for the modern business model compared to the 70's & 80's, prior to home recording being accessible & affordable.
     
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  15. Andrew Lloyd Webber

    Andrew Lloyd Webber Super Duper Moduraturr

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    What kind of $ do I have to contribute to get a mod to change the thread title to “All Dorks Report In”?

    Edit:

    This needs to be the site banner.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  16. zeropoint

    zeropoint SS.org Regular

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    I know this post is a couple of pages old, but spotify's case is a wee bit better than the others because at least they're doing some hosting / regional replication of the media and server availability scaling to ensure that it's available to people on an instant's notice - we've taken that technology for granted almost entirely, but it's not trivial to do so. It's replaced physical media but it's not magic and it comes with a lot of I.T. circus BS to make it happen to the average yolo kid's standards of "instantaneous".

    They also presumably farm a bunch of data from what people listen to, where they start and stop streams and skip to next songs, what gets repeated, turned up, turned down, and so on, and use it to auto-generate new crappy pop and radio-rock music that'll sell, thus making them a mountain of coin ... but that's another story.
     
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  17. Vyn

    Vyn Not a Sparkly Vampire

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    I like my industries shaken, not stirred.

    Puns and references aside, 100% this.
     
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  18. bhakan

    bhakan SS.org Regular

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    I came in here to say this. There are undoubtedly many factors in making our favorite bands struggle to make a living, but, even though we see Periphery as a massive band, could they even have existed in an industry like the '80s? They definitely serve a very specific niche and I'm not certain whether that niche would even get them to the point of being able to record a pro sounding LP then, let alone make a comfortable living. It seems like in the '70s there was a much sharper divide between bands on major labels and random local bands. We can only speculate which modern bands would have been making a comfortable living and which would of been playing a dive bar in their home town to 3 people because there's a gradient now covering a wide range of success.

    This basically sums up my feelings on the music industry.


    All that said, listen to budda and go to shows. There's so much awesome music you can go see for $10.
     
  19. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    That's interesting. I never thought about wondering if artists were doing better in other points in history. Is it safe to assume that the 50s-90s WERE anomalous, or is it possible that artists did better in, say, ancient Rome? I don't know, and have done zero research, but it is an interesting question, and makes me wonder why we create, and why we haven't been selected against, if society after society doesn't reward us.
     
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  20. Cynicanal

    Cynicanal SS.org Regular

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    For most of history, music wasn't a thing you consumed on its own. It was a thing you did -- either you were participating in a religious ritual (singing a hymn, etc), or you were joining in singing a drinking song, or it was a thing that was a part of a play, and generally, that play was religious and put on with the efforts of the whole community. It wasn't until the baroque period that "music as a thing you listen to that stands on its own" was a thing.
     
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