Lots of shootings...

AMOS

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Right. I think there's potentially little-or-no value in saying that a particular solution won't work, but offering no alternative idea. Maybe we've been trying to reason with people like @AMOS and getting nowhere, because logic has little value to them. I'd say, though, that, in the absence of a better idea, persistence might be the only hope.
Logic is everything, if you guys weren't foaming at the mouth over your gun confiscation rhetoric you might see it. You might see that gun control doesn't affect the habits and actions of criminals. Common sense prevailed in NY as well, don't you love it?
 

bostjan

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Logic is everything, if you guys weren't foaming at the mouth over your gun confiscation rhetoric you might see it. You might see that gun control doesn't affect the habits and actions of criminals. Common sense prevailed in NY as well, don't you love it?
I've never once said gun confiscation was a good idea. I've also said that gun control reform on its own won't improve anything.
 

fantom

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I kind of get the feeling that the insanity has gone beyond the point where greed can even begin to explain it. This is about principles, but some of those principles are disjointed enough between the various factions of the minority party that the overall picture makes absolutely no sense. I think, rather than judge congress or the GOP holistically, these nonsensical arguments need to be countered with more logical ones. Otherwise, it puts the voter in the awkward position of choosing between two different opposing hyperboles.

The biggest problem is that one side falsely raises a specific perceived point that the other side doesn't even believe. They use that to act outraged and push the opposite extreme. You don't need 2 factions for that. You need an agenda and a fallguy. Bernie Sanders fans are just as guilty of this behavior as Trump supporters.

How / why is returning your guns a punishment? It would be voluntary on your behalf, publicize correctly, get momento on the webz, start a peace movement, change the world with less guns on the hands of people. People don't need guns, they need food, a roof and health/social care. Let go of the fear that led you to buy a gun in the first place, you really don't need it. You know it to be true and that this is the way...

People are thinking locally about their own experience. Think about it for a second, how much crime exists on the internet that didn't exist before 1995 or so? Should we ban the internet because people in Kolkata steal millions from old peoples' nest eggs? Should we say piracy online is enough to ban your access to information? Imagine someone without internet access coming to you and saying that you don't need the internet and could start a peace movement by banning the internet. You would probably throw a fit.

One problem might be the loss of value for the gun owners. The average American owns 1.2 guns. With the average gun costing $650, that's nearly $800 worth of guns.

We have given far more in "stimulus" checks in the last 2 years to many of those same people... they can go suck my balls of they don't like it.
 

bostjan

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The biggest problem is that one side falsely raises a specific perceived point that the other side doesn't even believe. They use that to act outraged and push the opposite extreme. You don't need 2 factions for that. You need an agenda and a fallguy. Bernie Sanders fans are just as guilty of this behavior as Trump supporters.



People are thinking locally about their own experience. Think about it for a second, how much crime exists on the internet that didn't exist before 1995 or so? Should we ban the internet because people in Kolkata steal millions from old peoples' nest eggs? Should we say piracy online is enough to ban your access to information? Imagine someone without internet access coming to you and saying that you don't need the internet and could start a peace movement by banning the internet. You would probably throw a fit.



We have given far more in "stimulus" checks in the last 2 years to many of those same people... they can go suck my balls of they don't like it.
1. Case in point was my most recent post above. It doesn't matter what point I made, as long as there is a political disagreement. My point was characterized by the pro-gun person as being the exact thing I had explicitly said was not an idea I supported in a previous post. But if my ideas aren't ridiculous enough, these right-wingers have to erect a strawman and slap my quote on it to argue with it for some reason.
2. There are definite similarities with Sanders supporters. But at least there was some wrongdoing to complain about. It wasn't nearly as important as it was made out to be, but I think the distinction between exaggeration and flat out lying should be clear.
3. I'd always put financial crime on a tier lower than violent crime. Maybe a better example would be how there were no fatal car accidents prior to 1886, etc. It's still a good point, though.
4. You're right. It's like 9x as much, not even including stimulus checks for businesses. The military might even buy back all of the ammo, and it'd still be cheaper than the stimulus. But whatever, it'll still never happen... because this is the USA- guns, pickup trucks, eagles, flags, guns, beer, crushing student debt, ridiculous medical expenses, guns, and guns.
 

tedtan

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Not sure where we disagree here. I noticed you omitted "concealed." Is that the disagreement? Or in how I am observing people's reaction?
We may not disagree. I may have interpreted the phrase “The flood gates are now open” a bit differently (more emphatic) than you intended.
 

AMOS

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I've never once said gun confiscation was a good idea. I've also said that gun control reform on its own won't improve anything.
Rhetoric like that is about the only thing I see in this thread. I said it before and I'll say it again. I am FOR background checks in all gun shows and private sales. Normally you only have to show your license to the seller, but what if the buyer committed a domestic violence or other crime that hasn't resulted in his arrest or a revocation of his license yet? A license can be revoked in the computer system but if you dodge the police long enough you can keep it on your person and get a gun through a private sale. We need background checks for all that here in MA. It really isn't a hassle since I have nothing to hide.
 

AMOS

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How so? Any smart person will just sit back for a minute while all you 'good guys with guns' fight each other IMMEDIATELY and then we can just come in at the 11th hour and clean up when you're tired with the weapons the fallen ones have dropped.
If unlawful elements invade your home, or anything like that, muggings etc.. remember that couple that visited DC? They got mugged and gave the perps all they had and they still got their throats cut.
 

StevenC

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The flood gates are now open.

The Supreme Court of the US just issued their ruling on NYSRPA v Bruen and ruled that concealed carry is a Constitutional right. States that do not allow concealed carry, like New Jersey and California must be scrambling right now. And virtually every state that requires a permit needs to be bracing for lawsuits. With a conservative court, it shouldn't be a big surprise, but the opinions are worded with stronger language than I think was anticipated:
Weird that the right to bear arms must be federally protected, but privacy can be left to the states.
 

fantom

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Weird that the right to bear arms must be federally protected, but privacy can be left to the states.
Don't forget that we also need to federally ban voting by mail... But it really doesn't matter because states should also have the right to totally replace their electors with puppets.
 

Adieu

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Hey here's an idea:

Bring "well-regulated militia" into the 21st century. By making a gun license into a QR code.

Mandatory to be tattooed on your forehead.

And make it a misdemeanor to cover it in public.

Want a gun? Forfeit privacy forever and choose to look like an idiot.
 

possumkiller

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Hey here's an idea:

Bring "well-regulated militia" into the 21st century. By making a gun license into a QR code.

Mandatory to be tattooed on your forehead.

And make it a misdemeanor to cover it in public.

Want a gun? Forfeit privacy forever and choose to look like an idiot.
I like your thinking. "If you want a gun, you have to take The Mark." That will really get these religious nutjobs whining.
 

AMOS

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Hey here's an idea:

Bring "well-regulated militia" into the 21st century. By making a gun license into a QR code.

Mandatory to be tattooed on your forehead.

And make it a misdemeanor to cover it in public.

Want a gun? Forfeit privacy forever and choose to look like an idiot.
What kind of drugs are you on?
 

Adieu

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What kind of drugs are you on?

Just Stone IPA, Monster Energy, and dragonfruit vape juice

Btw, my suggestion was both semi-serious and quite feasible in some form, albeit perhaps less grotesque. The "well regulated" wording can, given proper political will, be turned into SUCH an absolute nightmare to comply with that nobody would ever do so. Just regulate wannabe "militiamen" into capitulation and done.

And this would NOT require amending the constitution.

It can literally be ANYTHING. Hell, you could make them march with 2 drummers carrying 15-foot banners for public carry to be legal (think "wide load" style), put GPS beacons on every gun AND ankle bracelets on anyone certified to carry, forbid transportation of firearms except hy horse or mule (for *safety reasons*), make them file weekly reports in person at the state capitol building from 3 to 3:30 pm on a Friday, etc.

Right to regulate = ample legal cause to turn any regulated activity into a cruel and unusual punishment
 
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AMOS

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Just Stone IPA, Monster Energy, and dragonfruit vape juice

Btw, my suggestion was both semi-serious and quite feasible in some form, albeit perhaps less grotesque. The "well regulated" wording can, given proper political will, be turned into SUCH an absolute nightmare to comply with that nobody would ever do so. Just regulate wannabe "militiamen" into capitulation and done.

And this would NOT require amending the constitution.

It can literally be ANYTHING. Hell, you could make them march with 2 drummers carrying 15-foot banners for public carry to be legal (think "wide load" style), put GPS beacons on every gun AND ankle bracelets on anyone certified to carry, forbid transportation of firearms except hy horse or mule (for *safety reasons*), make them file weekly reports in person at the state capitol building from 3 to 3:30 pm on a Friday, etc.

Right to regulate = ample legal cause to turn any regulated activity into a cruel and unusual punishment
Mental health screenings are needed for more people than just gun owners, obviously. I belong to a sportsmans club and no one talks about militia's, some of you guys don't have a clue what's even coming out of your own mouths. My friend teaches gun safety course which is mandatory here to get a license. 75% of the classes are liberal females. What's that tell you?
 


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