Kiesel Multiscale Aries

Discussion in 'Sevenstring Guitars' started by posmaster, Nov 22, 2015.

  1. elq

    elq (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

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    :agreed:

    For example - reversing the angle of the bridge pickup on a strat is a reasonably common thing - an attempt to get a more Hendrix like tone. It's not a huge difference, but it is noticeable IMHO.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Jonathan20022

    Jonathan20022 Engineer

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    That's definitely understandable, but it's also not anywhere near even 1/2 an inch of a difference if they did angle it further. I hear you guys overall though, I'm not against them pushing it a bit further back but I don't mind it enough to wait until that happens :lol:
     
  3. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    Whoa, I didn't know you could buy a pickguard like that! Where have I been?! That's pretty cool.
     
  4. ovlott

    ovlott SS.org Regular

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    Reading this whole thread front to back has given me insurmountable amounts GAS. Gonna have to move a ton of gear now
     
  5. Lorcan Ward

    Lorcan Ward 7slinger

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    The distance isn't that much but if it was angled more it would line up better. Just guessing but they look to be about 12 degrees so a 14 degree bridge pickup would be the correct angle. I can notice the difference in tone, its subtle but its there. Its not a deal breaker but something that should have been addressed when researching and prototyping.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. TamanShud

    TamanShud Finished

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    I'm one of those guys playing with "so much gain" that the tonal differences in that few mm aren't as important to me. But aesthetically, having the bridge pickup angle different from the bridge looks super off in my mind and was definitely a missed opportunity from Jeff. It just ends up looking sloppy.
     
  7. FifthCircleSquared

    FifthCircleSquared Threadender

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    Wait, shouldn't the bridge pickups pole pieces be in line with the fan, and not the bridge, to properly simulate a humbucker on a non-fanned guitar? Multi newb here.

    Also, I think these are a cool option for people that like them. I only play down to maybe Drop C nowadays, and regular non-fanned guitars work fine for me.
     
  8. kuma

    kuma SS.org Regular

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    The reason they angled the pickups the same way is most likely so that they only have to make and stock one type of baseplate for all their multiscale pickups. Given how small the difference would be, I personally feel like that's a fair trade off for a production guitar to make.

    As for Jeff's comments, it's just marketing BS. I stopped taking him seriously after the video where he took a drum sander to a headstock and said something to the effect of "Now it's even stronger."
     
  9. WiseSplinter

    WiseSplinter SS.org Regular

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    Yes, as far as I know it's not the specific distance from bridge to pickup, but rather a specific percentage of the total scale length.
    So the distance between the bridge and the pole under the high (shortest) string should be shorter than the distance between bridge and pole of the low (longest) string, to keep the same ratio and get the "right" sound.

    I think ...
     
  10. FrancescoFiligoi

    FrancescoFiligoi Guitarist in Within Destruction / Abiogenesis

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    The reason behind not angling the bridge pickup to follow the bridge fan is because custom pickup molds with different pole-spacing would require different tools and a lot of money involved. As you can notice, the two bobbins are shifted between each other of course, but the magnets are still in the same place as they would on straight pickups.

    That being said, the amount of fanning you see on the bridge pickup is the maximum they managed to do without poles starting to misalign.
    Jeff has assured me the distance from the lowest string saddle to the lowest pole is exactly the same as the Vader model, and he personally can't hear any difference in tone whatsoever.

    The higher string saddles get slightly closer to the poles, but also the scale gets progressively shorter, so tone would still remain balanced throughout all the strings.
     
  11. n4t

    n4t SS.org Regular

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    My 25-27 guitar from Oakland Axe Factory has a lesser angle on the bridge pickup versus the bridge. Seems to me this is common and I've seen this on many guitars.

    I would say that angles matching the fan are more rare.

    Just my impression from what I have seen. My opinion is that it is aesthetically and functionally irrelevant.
     
  12. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    Is the pickup fan the same as BKP's? To me the benefit of not being locked into Kiesel pickups for life would far outweigh the negligible effects of not being *quite* as tilted as the bridge. Note that in previous comparisons to strats and the like, the scope of this discrepancy is tiny.
     
  13. FifthCircleSquared

    FifthCircleSquared Threadender

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    I'm trying to say that I don't think you want the pickup as tilted as the bridge - If you imagine frets the whole length of the string, imagine what the angle of the fret would be there.

    You know, like when you have a compound radius fretboard - Radius at the nut is 12", at the last fret it's 16", and at the bridge it's 20" (or so).

    So, when you change the scale from one side of the neck to the other, you want the pickup polepieces in their ideal location across the scale, which I think they've done here (That's the whole point of angling pickups, right?) - They followed the sum total of the fan and put the pickups at an angle that would match the fret angle if you imagine frets the whole length of the string. Which equals string to string clarity, and it sounding like a regular straight pickup. Right?

    If you try to radius a bridge on a compound radius fretboard the same as the radius of the last fret, you're in for a bad time. I know it's apples to oranges, but short of actually drawing imaginary fret markers on a jpeg of an Ares I don't know how else to explain this.

    *Edit. I see, you guys are upset that it *doesn't* follow as above. I understand now.
     
  14. canuck brian

    canuck brian Bowes Guitars Contributor

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    If Jeff Kiesel is going to go online and promptly slag every single other manufacturer of fanned fret guitars in the first sentence of his announcement, I'll happily point out that having the identical angle pickups in both positions is sloppy, cosmetically off putting and looks like someone forgot to finish the guitar properly.

    It's the fine details that count and it looks like "meh, good enough." Theres actually no logical reason to use the same routes and pickup shapes unless you're cutting costs and using the same baseplate in both positions. Makes sense, but looks cheap.

    All they had to do was change the angle on the cuts during the design and change the PDF for the bobbin cut outs. If my buddy can do this in 20 minutes and convert my fanned 8 stuff to 7 string fanned and have perfectly aligned and properly angled pickups and routes, Carvin can stop cutting corners and design this guitar so that looks properly thought out instead of someone slapping something together with MS Paint and rushed to production.

    This is completely false. There are no "custom pickup molds." There are baseplates either laser cut or CNC'd out, unless they went with BK route and used custom metal baseplates (like a standard BK). Even if they did that, they could just make a second one at minimal costs (i work in a machine shop as well btw). They use identical parts. The only thing different is the baseplate and the bobbins. Tooling cost difference is actually ZERO. They can be cut from the same sheet at the exact same time whether it be on a CNC router mill or on a laser cutter. If i can get a tiny company in California to make little me a set of custom built, perfectly angled pickups for under $200 US over and over, Carvin can use their in house designers and multimillion dollar CNC setup to properly make them considering that they're already built in house.

    Example - laser cut bobbins. Unless you're using a standardized baseplate (Duncan, BK, Nord), this is how fanned fret pickups are properly made with proper angles. This requires zero tool changes (if cut on a CNC router instead of a laser cutter) and can actually be done in the same program, which is how I cut mine. The angles on these are slightly different and fit perfectly in the cavities they were built for.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

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    Yes, you don't want the pups the same angle as the bridge. I think most people here saying that really mean that the pups should fall on the fan. Which means the bridge pickup should be more angled than the neck pup, but slightly less angled than the bridge.

    And narad has the best point here: if this is the bkp angle, then these are swappable with bkps, and that alone will sell more models of this. That is a HUGE advantage. If that's their reasoning, then that trumps all.
     
  16. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    Would be great if we could get rid of this idea altogether. There is no ideal location. Totally subjective where you want them on the fanned fret guitar, totally subjective where you want them on the standard scale, and while I get what you're saying in trying to work out how Kiesel's strategy relates to a standard pickup in a standard instrument, we shouldn't even be thinking about that.

    Another confounding issue is that the pickup location should play nice with the pickup qualities, something we often don't think about probably because we often have a set bridge pickup position and our free variable is what pickup fills it. Kiesel essentially had a pickup, and needed to figure out where to put it to get the feel he thinks is best, and was maybe constrained a bit by laziness in tooling up something extreme.

    So is it tight enough? Personally I'm going to wait until I hear more demos or have the chance to play one rather than make a judgement measuring distances in photographs.
     
  17. mphsc

    mphsc http://pyramidguitarscompany.com/

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    OMG (gosh)
     
  18. ncfiala

    ncfiala Silence you bastard

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    I wish they would have done this for the DC700 instead. I guess the Aries is ok in solid colors, but they look horrible with the wood showing. Is there any reason why the bevel is not covered with the top wood?
     
  19. thrsher

    thrsher \m/-_-\m/

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    some say aesthetics, some say cutting corners/laziness and some say to streamline.

    take your pick
     
  20. technomancer

    technomancer Gearus Pimptasticus Super Moderator

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    Actually unlike not doing a drop top on an arm contour on the Vader this one you really couldn't do without making 1/2 the guitar the top wood. The bevel on these really is huge and you can't bend a thinner top over a bevel.
     

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