Kemper vs Dual Rectifier

Discussion in 'Gear & Equipment' started by sevenfoxes, Aug 19, 2019.

  1. TheWarAgainstTime

    TheWarAgainstTime "TWAT" for short

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    Not on-hand, but I can make up a quick demo sometime this week with a couple of different amps and impulses :yesway:
     
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  2. sevenfoxes

    sevenfoxes SS.org Regular

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    Would love that. Thanks!
     
  3. sevenfoxes

    sevenfoxes SS.org Regular

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    Btw, I noticed the Suhr is only capable of handling 100w. I guess it would work for my Roadster since i can drop it to 50w, but what about my 6505, which is over 100w? Is the Suhr really sensitive to that?
     
  4. crankyrayhanky

    crankyrayhanky SS.org Regular

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    No.

    But it will sound a lot like a Dual Rec that is being mic'ed up in another room while you're getting the control room sound. That can still be inspiring and sound/feel good but is different than standing in front of the actual wall of tube sound.

    If you have an audience, there can be virtually no difference to them as the Kemper delivers big time to the house PA.
     
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  5. c7spheres

    c7spheres GuitArtist

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    - I'm in the minority it seems and am not a fan of IR's. They sit well in a mix assuming you have one that you like and you can't tell the difference, but soloed they have this weird sound to them. I've talked about it in other threads when I was exploring the idea of Axe Fx etc. I use a Sequis Motherload Pro load box and love it. It feels and sounds fantastic. It also handles 100 watts. You can get it in 4.8. or 16 ohm versions. I have the 8 ohm.
    - If your using an amp that's over 100 watts and using a load rated for 100 watts max. It will probably work but be stressing the components. It's not a good idea as even if it doesn't fail the components and sound quality will likely suffer. I tried hooking up my Motherload to a 150 watt Krank once and it worked but sounded low in volume and wrong. I disconnected it right away. It's not a just turn the volume down for less watts type thing.
    - I think it really comes down to old vs new. The mixing / recording techniques are a little different in the gain staging areas and it depends on what you like or want from your setup.
    - I'm biased towards using a passive load box and no IR's, even over a mic. Get a Sequis and call it a day. If you don't like the on board sounds then use the unnaffected output/send and try out IR's in the computer/daw. It's passive/reactive and to me sounds better than an actual speaker. The internal components are top quality. I doubt you'll find better for a load device, plus you get a speaker attenuator for low volume practice which sounds as good as you could hope for any attenuator which is pretty good and definitely nice to play on. The Pro version I have is impossible to find, but the Elemental uses the same exact guts as the pro version just less filters etc. which you don't need. All I use is the Low/High that's already on the elemntal anyways. Sometimes load boxes get hate, even the good one's, and that's because usually people don't know how to use them. You are not supposed to connect it then start messing with your amp. You're supposed to get your amp how you want it at the full jam with a drummer level, connect it, then adjust the load controls. The point is to capture your amp as you like to sound in all it's glory. People think they can make it better by messing with the amp. That's sometimes true but not usually. It's not how it's done, sorry.

    Here's some picts.


    ELemental front.jpg elemental back.jpg elemental block diagram.jpg sequis elem insides.jpg motherloadinside1.jpg
     
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  6. mnemonic

    mnemonic Custom User Title

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    Isn’t the roadster 100 watts maximum output?

    Iirc John Suhr has posted on TGP that it was rated conservatively, he’s run a 100 watt plexi dimed (so output would be much higher than 100 Watts) into it for hours with no problems.

    Plus with modern metal amps you probably won’t like the sound of a Recto or 6505 dimed, the sweet spot tends to be a lot lower.
     
  7. sevenfoxes

    sevenfoxes SS.org Regular

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    Ah, true! I was thinking it was 120w, but that's the 6505.

    And you're right, rectos turn to mush after a certain volume point.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  8. Jeff

    Jeff Banned from Reality

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    Nope. I've played a Kemper powered head through the same Recto 2x12 vert cab back to back with several Mesas, and it's very good, but it's not the same feel, sound, or punch. It was impressive though, compared to the Helix (which is also good).
     
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  9. sevenfoxes

    sevenfoxes SS.org Regular

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    This confirms my suspicion. I'm sure the Kemper comes close, but duplicating the same thing using different components brings about different results, i suppose. Form equals function.
     
  10. SandyRavage

    SandyRavage SS.org Regular

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    Owned a Rack mount dual for almost 10 years that has survived about a dozen other amps coming and going. Bought a kemper this year and haven’t touched it since I bought it.

    Have been very pleased with the variety of tonal options and found a few of the STL packs when tweaked give me 95% of the way there in Room.

    Had to go through the packs and tweak them but the versatility of the kemper has been insane.

    For clarity I bought unpowered and have tried the matrix (which I loved but couldn’t justify the price) a Mesa 50/50 which sounded great but definitely changed tones significantly.

    I’m using it with an Orange Pedal baby now and couldn’t be happier.
     
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  11. sevenfoxes

    sevenfoxes SS.org Regular

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    Probably getting off topic at this point, but how do amp sims compare to something like the Suhr load box in terms of audio quality?
     
  12. c7spheres

    c7spheres GuitArtist

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    It's like real gear. It all depends on what you get,how you set it up, and everything in between from guitar to speakers. I tried the ReAxis and Bias so far and the ReAxis doesn't sound like a TriAxis to me, Both Bias and ReAxis sound alright, but were high noise floor for me, didn't feel good and plus I don't like IR's much so didn't jive with it well. If It isn't the full experience for me it doesn't matter much if I'm playing through a POD or little pocket amp etc cause I work on different things then where sound quality and focus on dynamics is not what I'll be doing. I'd literally rather play unplugged and focus on different aspects honestly. Not to bag on sims, cause they are decent for jams. I just look at them as a professional tool for my personal wants, but I've heard many examples of others using them quite well.
     
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  13. c7spheres

    c7spheres GuitArtist

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    - I meant to say I just DON"T look at them as a professional tool for my personal wants, but I've heard many examples of others using them quite well. forgot the word DON"T in there.
    - I know I keep talking up the Sequis and wondered what others were getting out of them. After seeing the YouTube Videos I can see why nobody uses these. Those are pretty bad quality vids and all seem to be done with Marshalls too. I don't know why the demos are gone for the clips from the Sequis website either. Rick over at Sequis is a great guy and helped me when I first got mine. Maybe he still has the clips if you email him. If I had access to my gear (it's been in cold storage due to living situation) i'd make a clip. If I can find a clip of something I did with it I can email it to you. I gotta get my drives outta storage. I use a dual Mesa V-Twin preamp setup with a VHt power amp setup, so it's similar to the Roadster. It's like a 4 channel Mesa with an El34 VHT power section.
     
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  14. TheWarAgainstTime

    TheWarAgainstTime "TWAT" for short

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    Here's a quick demo I whipped up today: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SUknp966Idm7s--ZHLGXLl1lQa_DzzR-

    Signal chain is: Carvin TL60 with a Dimarzio Dominion -> TC Electronic Polytune 3 with the buffer engaged -> ISP Decimator II -> Friedman Buxom Boost -> ISP Decimator II -> amp -> Suhr Reactive Load -> Axe FX II -> Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 -> Studio One 4

    The amps, in order of appearance, are my VHT Ultra Lead, Bogner Twin Jet, EVH 5153 50w, and Peavey 5150 Block Letter.

    All I'm using the Axe FX for in this case is as an IR loader and some mild EQ. This was a 50/50 blend of the Ownhammer Trad 412 V70 57-01 and Trad 412 V70 57-03 from the Cali Duo pack. The cab block in the Axe FX has a high pass at 80hz and low pass at 10k, then I have a parametric EQ doing a narrow cut around 4.2K. I dialed in the patch to where I thought it sounded good with the Ultra Lead then left the settings alone with the other amps to keep it relatively scientific. There's no processing going on in Studio One other than volume adjustments on each track to try and get them to be the same level. I dialed it in by ear, so it may not be perfect.

    EDIT: new link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YQtrftO4anZ8ZfSCI6c8G2FcQsNn2yqC/view?usp=sharing
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
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  15. c7spheres

    c7spheres GuitArtist

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    Nice job man. Sounds good. I think my favorite is a toss up between the VHT and 5150, probably leaning towards the VHT more. It's weird cause I went to play it again and now it won't play for me. It only played once for some reason.
     
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  16. TheWarAgainstTime

    TheWarAgainstTime "TWAT" for short

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    Thanks! The UL is my favorite amp in the collection :D

    Not sure what's up with the link, but I'm working on it.

    EDIT: here's a new link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YQtrftO4anZ8ZfSCI6c8G2FcQsNn2yqC/view?usp=sharing
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
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  17. c7spheres

    c7spheres GuitArtist

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  18. 4Eyes

    4Eyes SS.org Regular

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    simple answer - no. the advantages of kemper are portability for live use and consistency in the recording environment (like you don't have to worry if mic was moved during the session, or if you need to re-record something later) and the ability of capturing really close "image" of your sounds and ability to bring them wherever you want + zilion of other profiles available (if you're into it). in regards of feeling - I believe you'll be able to tell the difference if you know the real deal. sound wise, with raw tracks you'll be most probably be able to tell the difference, in the mix it can be hard depending on what happened to the guitar tracks during mixing.

    the biggest disadvantage of kemper is, and most people don't seem to realise it, that once you get the profile you can't really tweak it like you'd tweak the real amp. sure there are gain and EQ controls, but EQ is post and the more you tweak the sound the more it's falling apart from the source, same with the gain, it just doesn't work the same way. and that brings you to the rabbit hole of trying dozens and dozens of profiles that will work with your playing style/guitar/pickups... if you're hunting for some specific amp sound that you don't have on hand. for that kind of building rig in digital realm and tweak ability like it was the real deal I believe there are better options (classic modellers - Axe FX, Helix...)

    if you want to get feel of a specific tube amp at low volumes get a real deal + reactive load + IR of some sort and that will bring you closest to the result you want.
     
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  19. sevenfoxes

    sevenfoxes SS.org Regular

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    Awesome! Thanks for posting that. Definitely gives me a better idea of the tonal characteristics going that route. I probably wouldn't be able to tell you that wasn't recorded without a mic.

    I agree that the UL and 5150 sounded the best!
     
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  20. sevenfoxes

    sevenfoxes SS.org Regular

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    Thanks for explaining that.

    I think I'll stick with my Roadster, lol!
     
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