In Flames "I, the Mask"

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by Hellbound, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. Adam Of Angels

    Adam Of Angels The GAS Man

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    I can’t believe “Colony” and “Clayman” are being trashed here. In Flames struck musical gold on those albums - there’s so much raw intensity, heart, and authenticity. No other melodic death before or since has hit quite the same mark. If you can listen to “Embody the Invisible” and “Man Made God” and not admit that it’s god-tier Melo-Death, then *shrug*
     
  2. KailM

    KailM SS.org Regular

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    Who’s trashing them? I merely suggested they aren’t as good as the two previous albums.
     
  3. Necky379

    Necky379 SS.org Regular

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    I agree, I enjoy those albums as much as I enjoy their earlier stuff. This newest album and many before it just don’t do it for me but the reality of it is I’m not a part of the target audience. It doesn’t sound like music made for musicians or a response to musical peers in a small Swedish melo-death scene as their earlier offerings did. Call it “selling out” but everything after Reroute to Remain sounds like an attempt to reach the widest audience possible. To me it sounds like the band has shifted towards accessibility and profit. Mechanics aren’t playing ’Whoracle’ in their bays they’re playing ‘I, Mask’, the average 30 something year old isn’t listening to ‘Colony’ at the gym they’ve got ‘Come Clarity’. More people are looking for the ‘Sense of Purpose’ sound than the ‘Clayman’ sound. They aren’t being influenced by opinions on guitar forums or actively playing music themselves so the dumbed down, electronically enhanced, pop hooked formula is what works and what makes the band and their employers money.

    Really who could blame the band? Most of their peers are no longer making music, they’re older than they were in 1995 and have collected responsibilities from then until now. After investing as much time in their music career as they have how could they not turn to profit making and sustaining an audience in a time where kids and adults have immediate access to so much more engaging entertainment than they did when In Flames were just making a name for themselves.

    I feel like I’m ranting but I used to be a huge In Flames fan, they were by far my favorite band in high school. I was really bothered by the direction they took with their later albums but now that I’m older I understand why they changed. At least we still have the old stuff.
     
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  4. primitiverebelworld

    primitiverebelworld SS.org Regular

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    I just logged in to write exactly this. Those are kick a$$ albums and even if someone does not like melodic metal one must admit these are full of great songwriting, memorable solos and catchy choruses.

    I know we are discussing the latest release in this conversation - dont like it. Production sounds boxy and flat too.
     
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  5. Emperor Guillotine

    Emperor Guillotine The Almighty Ruler

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    What in the actual fuck kind of title is I, the Mask?
     
  6. works0fheart

    works0fheart Tike Myson

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    I don't think a single song on the Jester Race even remotely points to what they sound like now. You mentioned early that you thought about songs like Dead Eternity because of the "hooks". That's kind of a thing within every genre of music. Death had hooks ffs. Because there are re-occurring catchy parts within a song definitely doesn't point to a potential chance for an artist to go pop. I'm sorry, but I read this several pages back and it might be one of the silliest things I've seen in this thread. If you were to maybe say Colony or Clayman had songs hinting to where they were going, sure I might buy it, but Whoracle and prior are solid melodic death metal albums through and through.

    I'm actually baffled this is even up for debate right now. I can go back and listen to TJR all day and songs like Artifacts and December Flower are pretty damned metal if I've ever heard it. Yes they have melody, but that's the end of it really.
     
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  7. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I stand by what I said. Not all music is written with hooks or melody like that in mind. When I say I can hear that direction from the beginning, I mean that I can hear an intent to write with "being catchy" in mind- and to me, it's no surprise that this is where the band ended up. The way it's delivered is changed, but to my ears the intent is very similar.
     
  8. works0fheart

    works0fheart Tike Myson

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    What genre of music do people write that isn't meant to be catchy?
     
  9. Mprinsje

    Mprinsje st. anger ain't bad!

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    Colony is incredible. I've always thought it sounded like whoracle, but a bit more accesible and with better production. Clayman is where you can see shimmers of where they're going to go, but that's an incredible record still. In fact, every IF record up to and including Come Clarity is excellent, although for different reasons.
     
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  10. Cynicanal

    Cynicanal SS.org Regular

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    You're mistaking me with TedEH. I was the one who brought up Dead Eternity.

    Anyways, first off, nope, hooks aren't a thing in every type of music. Go listen to "Illuminations of Vile Engorgement" by Enmity, and tell me where the hooks are. Or, closer to the realms of "normal" music, while I guess one could argue that albums like Infester's "To the Depths... In Degradation" or Nox's "Ixaxaar" or Necrovore's "Divuus De Mortuus" or Gorguts's "Obscura" or Fallen Christ's "Abduction Ritual" have hooks if they were willing to torture the definition of the word "hook" enough, but it sure as hell isn't intentionally catchy nor does it have the nice little sing-along verses and choruses that "Dead Eternity" has.

    Also, I don't know why you bring up Death, their last death metal album was "Leprosy", and their only good one was "Scream Bloody Gore".

    But, looking at "Dead Eternity" for what it is, just listen to the guitar parts under the verse and chorus; those aren't riffs, they're clearly not meant to be the lead voice in the song, they're just meant to be a backdrop for the vocals, like in a rock song, except In Flames didn't bother writing a vocal melody for the verse, so it's more akin to a rap song with a pop-bridge than a rock song. "Melodic" (using the term as most metalheads seem to, as in "not really chromatic and kinda sugary", which isn't the real meaning of the word "melodic", but whatever) death or black metal that doesn't fall into this kind of pattern is easy to find -- listen to "Blood Oracle" by Morgengrau, "His Majesty at the Swamp" by Varathron, "Far Away From the Sun" by Sacramentum, "Slumber of Sullen Eyes" by Demigod, or "Farseeing the Paranormal Abysm" by The Chasm -- so it's not just a case of "melodic = pop", but rather a case of "making pop music on guitars with HM-2s = pop".

    There's a reason why when stereotypical melodeath bands do their inevitable "ironic pop-song cover", it just sounds like any other song by that band except better.

    EDIT: I went back a couple of pages and saw that TedEH beat me to the punch on the Dead Eternity reference. Whoops! Oh well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  11. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    It doesn't have to be tied to genre, I never said anything genre-encompassing.

    Off the top of my head though -> Noise/ambient stuff, and some takes on "grind" are not really meant to be catchy.

    And besides that, I'm talking just about writing styles and priorities- not that certain bands or genres have zero hooks. Take something like some tech death bands -> The primary goal of writing isn't "a catchy melody", it's to pack as many notes as you can over some blast beats and gurgle noises so you can sound like you're doing something impressive. Or bands whose primary writing goal is "be as brutal as we can get away with".
     
  12. works0fheart

    works0fheart Tike Myson

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    I mean, some tech death bands are guilty of that, but I'm pretty sure that the goal of tech death and brutal death metal writers is usually to write something catchy. Especially brutal death metal. If you can listen to Defeated Sanity or Disgorge and tell me there aren't catchy riffs then I don't even know.

    I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until this statement and now you've actually just lost my attention. Didn't even bother to read the rest after this point.
     
  13. rokket2005

    rokket2005 SS.org Regular

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    Jesper started In Flames specifically so that he could write catchier music. Also, we're talking about a band who has twice covered Depeche Mode. Don't get me wrong, I love Depeche Mode, but the problem with new In Flames isn't that it's gotten "poppy." It's gotten lazy and shitty. Anders lyrics have been trash since he learned English and Sundin stopped translating them from Swedish. He has been the weakest part of the band since Reroute, and instead of working more on his lyrics or vocals in general, the rest of the band has lifted it up and made it more of a focal point.
     
  14. Cynicanal

    Cynicanal SS.org Regular

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    It's OK, I wrote that post assuming you had some understanding of what death metal is, since you apparently don't you wouldn't have understood any of it anyways.

    But, as someone who plays guitar in a death metal band that actually plays death metal, I can assure you that there's plenty of us who don't try to write catchy stuff. It works against the feel we're trying to create.
     
  15. works0fheart

    works0fheart Tike Myson

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    Hahahaha

    "You don't have the mental capacity to understand what death metal is so you obviously wouldn't know what I'm talking about"

    Get out of here with your elitist, pretentious bullshit. This might be the most cringe inducing thing I've ever read on this forum actually.
     
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  16. Cynicanal

    Cynicanal SS.org Regular

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    I'm not saying you don't have the capability to understand what death metal is. I'm saying you don't understand what death metal is. There are a ton of intelligent people who don't understand a good many things they're entirely capable of understanding, just because they're not interested in it.
     
  17. works0fheart

    works0fheart Tike Myson

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    Right on champ :agreed:. You play in a death metal band. You're obviously the authority on what's death metal and what isn't. Thanks for filling me in. I feel so enlightened now
     
  18. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    At the end of the day, the point was just that In Flames have always been a catchy, hooks-forward kind of a band in terms of their writing. I don't think that's much of a stretch. :shrug:
     
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  19. works0fheart

    works0fheart Tike Myson

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    You're not wrong. I mistakenly thought you said the Dead Eternity pop comment. I didn't realize it was our resident authority on death metal up here.
     
  20. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I did mention the same song:
     

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