I'm Transgender. Ask me anything.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by SexHaver420, Dec 8, 2020.

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  1. BlackMastodon

    BlackMastodon \m/ (゚Д゚) \m/ Contributor

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    I would love to watch some ultra-conservative Floridian dig themselves deeper and deeper while trying to defend this bill. What the fuck is wrong with that state as a whole?
     
  2. SexHaver420

    SexHaver420 Oops I'm a girl.

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    Ultra conservatives all seem to either be sexual predators and/or in the closet so they probably wouldn't have an issue trying to defend it lol
     
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  3. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    Ok, so...the thing is, I'm sure nobody is expecting teachers or coaches to so these exams, but a pediatrician/doctor, right? Like a vaccination record. But yet THAT'S a thing that people keep arguing against in memes. The right can't meme, but the left can jump to just as many odd gas-lighting conclusions.
     
  4. SexHaver420

    SexHaver420 Oops I'm a girl.

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    No one needs to be looking at childrens genitals besides the kid they belong to and medical professionals in case there is an actual medical issue. Wanting to play sports isn't a medical problem. Trans kids need left alone and should just be allowed to kid stuff like playing sports and not have to worry if someone is gonna force the kid to expose themselves to an adult regardless of who it is unless its medically necessary.
     
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  5. Wuuthrad

    Wuuthrad SS.org Regular

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    I guess I really don’t understand- if a kid is to be left alone to “normal kids stuff” how is sexual identity a “normal” kids activity?

    Also isn't there a legitimate concern of an anatomical male (for lack of better term) having a distinct advantage in athletics?

    I recall reading about sexual predation amongst men identifying as Trans women or whatever its called, but that was an adult problem.

    I guess a bigger question might be can you really separate sexuality from gender? And why is gender identity an issue for children? Where did they learn this?

    School sex education was really good when was in school- but since that time its gone downhill thanks in part to abstinence education and other r-wing nut job ideas...
     
  6. InfinityCollision

    InfinityCollision SS.org Regular

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    Please don't conflate gender identity with sexual identity, but even with sexual identity you've got kids developing crushes and talking about that sort of thing even in elementary school or sooner. There are plenty of kids who figure out gender stuff well before puberty hits too - and more who might, if we did a better job talking about this.

    Not post-HRT.

    https://time.com/4314896/transgender-bathroom-bill-male-predators-argument/
    https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article70255967.html
    https://www.npr.org/2016/05/15/4779...-person-uses-a-public-bathroom-who-is-at-risk

    The bathroom talking point is a red herring that anyone who is trans or adjacent to trans & queer folk would laugh at, if not for how absurdly scary and even dangerous using public restrooms can be for them. It's not really about making others safe (think "for the children" type arguments), it's about putting trans people in a no-win situation where they either use a bathroom illegally, or go into a different bathroom that outs them and puts them at greater risk.

    Yes. Framing sexuality in terms of gender is a linguistic construct, not a conceptual necessity. It would not surprise me if some other languages differ on this point. There are words without this framing in English as well, but they're not commonly used.

    It's not something you "learn". The vocabulary to express it can be, but the underlying identity is not.
     
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  7. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    On some level, it's just sports, so who cares? If we're talking about kids, then it literally doesn't matter any farther than having some fun and getting some exercise, and if it's adults, well, there's plenty of debate around that already but at the end of the day it's basically an entertainment industry. If we're still entertained, then the details shouldn't matter to most people.

    [Edit: removed the rest, 'cause arguing semantics never goes anywhere good in threads like this]
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  8. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    I don't think science has a good understanding of these issues yet. While HRT seems to normalize a lot of muscle performance related issues, it's not going to undo the skeletal development that happens during puberty. For some sports (or at the highest levels, maybe almost all sports) that frame is going to play an important role.

    Kind of a niche topic and I couldn't care less about the idea of records and such in competitive sports, but no doubt an important issue for those whose lives are based around it.
     
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  9. SexHaver420

    SexHaver420 Oops I'm a girl.

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    Just a reminder that if kids are too young to know if they're gay or trans or whatever they're too young to know if they're straight or cis.

    Also HRT completely destroys your muscle mass and strength if you're on testosterone blockers and estrogen. Trans women who have been on HRT for a while have less testosterone because we have to block it for the estrogen to work better. I've lost at least a third of my physical stength and a ton of muscle mass in the past few months.

    Trans masc people have a large advantage at sports vs cis women because they're on testosterone and can gain strength and muscle a lot easier. None of these shitty bills seem to address that because trans mascs are way less threatening to whatever shitty agenda those people have apparently.
     
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  10. Wuuthrad

    Wuuthrad SS.org Regular

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    Why not conflate sexuality with gender? What am I missing here? I’ve always thought the two are intermingled, no matter what your preference.

    What if I tell you I’m female, born with male anatomy, attracted to women. Does that make me a Lesbian?? Seems ridiculous. Or does it?

    Also how does anyone know that anyone is “born” a certain way? Didn't they learn this concept? It seems a philosophical ideation or construct, far past the emotional and intellectual capacity of children.

    What if a child were to say I’m an adult trapped in a kids body. Are we to say let them be treated as an adult, with all the same laws and responsibilities subjected to and upon them, because they were born that way? I hope not.

    What I’m suggesting is sort of the concept of nature vs nurture.

    If binary gender roles are inaccurate (if that's the presumption) why use them at all?

    I fear that adults maybe are controlling the minds of children too much from either side of this issue whether they are trying to or not.
     
  11. BlackMastodon

    BlackMastodon \m/ (゚Д゚) \m/ Contributor

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    Yes.
    No.

    I don't know why this is such a common straw to grasp for people, it's not a very difficult concept. It's like thinking that women aren't actually lesbians and are faking it because they use dildos during sex.

    I do think that children/teens who identify as trans and want to undergo HRT or non-reversible procedures is a really murky area that requires a whole lot of nuance, but on the other side of that token is forcing kids to either be boys or girls. Just let kids be kids, if boys wanna wear dresses and have longer hair when they're 8 then who the fuck cares?
     
  12. Merrekof

    Merrekof SS.org Regular

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    Because it makes life easy. 2 bathrooms, male and female. 2 classes in most sports (not in motorsport, females can compete alongside men if they can). Most, if not all nations, have seperate systems for retirement funds, parentleave, income at the job,...
    Personally I don't care about 2 genders and they can throw it away for all I care. Everyone should have the same rights, regardless of what's between ones legs. But can you imagine how society and law would have to change to get that far? I think we're still a loooooong way from that, considering conservative minds want to step back even further.
     
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  13. InfinityCollision

    InfinityCollision SS.org Regular

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    To my knowledge, nobody post-HRT holds any record of note. There are also women like Caster Semenya, Dutee Chand, and Francine Niyonsaba who naturally have unusual hormone levels, far above what a woman on HRT would have.

    To the point of skeletal development, you're mostly incorrect - HRT does affect skeletal development. I say "mostly" because some of the effects vary with when you begin HRT. Trans women beginning HRT at later ages experience less hip development for example, but by such an age any athletic prospects are likely in their later years or passed. HRT for both trans men and women is also associated with changes in bone mass.

    As far as kids go, if they're on blockers/HRT then the effects of puberty are minimized or preempted. If not then that's a more nuanced conversation given traditional sports dynamics sure, but poking around in the kid's pants isn't how we cross that bridge. Not that I think you're arguing for that, but it's where this part of the conversation originated.

    Some people don't! In some cultures this even is an established and longstanding part of society, with more than two genders in common use. But for the most part modern society is patterned around the notion of a gender binary, so that's where things are and how most people think about it. Doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

    Probably because they were born that way, or know someone born that way and listened to them. It only seems complicated because we're taught to shove things into predetermined boxes over many years, with little or no exposure to other possibilities. Especially if it's not part of your own life.
     
  14. SexHaver420

    SexHaver420 Oops I'm a girl.

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    From what I understand teenagers aren't allowed to undergo surgery besides in very rare circumstances. It's hard for them to get on HRT and they usually prescribe blockers for quite a while first. They also have a bunch of counseling and other stuff closely monitored by professionals the entire time to make sure that they're actually transgender. Kids can't just tell their parents they're trans and walk into the doctor and immediately get pubery blockers/HRT/any surgery they want and I have no clue why people think it's that easy.

    Anyone who thinks children shouldn't even be on blockers is a horrible person because going through the wrong puberty is some special kind of hell I'd never wish upon anyone ever. I wake up every day and my brain reminds me that my body will never be how it should be regardless of the amount of HRT and/or surgeries I have. It's basically just a life of compromise and I have to do what I can do to deal with it.
     
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  15. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    Sure, there's changes to bone quality, but I was talking about the skeletal frame, and once you're a pre-HRT 20 year old in a broad-shouldered, tight-waisted body, there's not going to be an easy way to normalize that difference. Of course there are plenty of male skeletal structures that fall within the bulk of the female skeletal bell curve, but pro athletics is sampling from the extremes of that distribution. As for records, of course we're not seeing those records at the world level yet, but it seems like it'd be only a matter of time.

    It was actually the whole trans activism that made me completely stop caring about track and field type things. I'm not sure why I'm supposed to care about like who the fastest 100m sprinter is, when that achievement is a primarily an outcome from freak genetics. And on top of that, why should I care if someone performs well because they have hormone levels in the .00001% naturally occurring, or because the supplement those hormones? Why do we even care about a male/female distinction in sports? Tough questions, but until pro athletes, especially born biologically female ones, become as cynical as I am about those sports, it's going to be a problem.

    Of course I hear this talking point a lot in politics where it's clearly a diversion from the daily issues that personally effect the other 99.999% of trans individuals.

    Yea, I'm not tackling any of the issues that apply to HRT before or in early onset of puberty, just because that has a lot less to do with athletics, a lot more uncertainty about physiological outcomes, and a lot more to do with general ethics and policy. My point is only that a post-puberty male->female transition can still impart some athletic advantages over those born biologically female. As long as we're going to have divisions in sports, how to define those divisions is still going to be a real mess.
     
  16. Wuuthrad

    Wuuthrad SS.org Regular

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    I honestly have no idea what some of you are talking about, all I know is that gender discrimination sucks!

    When I grew up there were boys and girls, some ppl were str8, some were gay, and it wasn't a big deal at all!

    What I learned later in life was I grew up in a progressive community, and the “real world” was a lot different.

    People really fucking suck sometimes!
     
  17. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I don't mean this to sound funny, or to discredit or diminish your view of things, but this is kind of part of the human experience. It would be incorrect to assume that the average cis person doesn't also go through a difficult puberty and end up making a lot of compromises in life. Puberty is difficult and awkward and vulnerable and terrible. Life is full of compromise.

    This is also going to sound bad, but plenty of adults don't understand these things, and I don't think we've really reached a cultural consensus of any kind on these subjects, so I don't know how we could expect children to just know the nuances of societal roles vs reproductive roles vs the semantic arguments vs the presentation of "your self" vs how much the subjective experience plays into it, etc. etc.
     
  18. SexHaver420

    SexHaver420 Oops I'm a girl.

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    This is something you're never going to understand if you're cis and happy with your assigned gender. Yeah puberty is hard but my second one has been 1000x easier because some parts of me finally feel right. It hasn't ruined my body and it's not going to cause me over a decade of suicidial ideaton and no self esteem which never would have happened if I had the right one in the first place. I have no idea how to explain how difficult it is to look at your body or look in the mirror and either completely disassociate or feel completely disgusted and wrong for years.

    If you wanna know what it's sort of like and you live in a place that does informed consent to get HRT you can probably get some blockers to give you dysphoria for a while and then start transitioning so you can see how horrible it is.
     
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  19. c7spheres

    c7spheres GuitArtist

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    If "they" just let eveyone play on the same teams then either way the best players will still come out as the best players. Best of the best regardless of gender or whatever.

    - Generally men are stronger than women, but nobody has a problem with that one Non-trans girl that's twice the size of all the other girls because she takes after her dad.

    - It would be better for "them" to treat it by weight class. This would keep the competition more fair regardless of who's playing. Everyone knows it's no fun when someone is just kicking everyone elses ass (well, sometimes that's fun too!)
     
  20. linthat22

    linthat22 SS.org Regular

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