I got my Strictly 7 Boden and....

Discussion in 'Sevenstring Guitars' started by leonardo7, May 24, 2013.

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  1. Xaios

    Xaios Foolish Mortal Contributor

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    It bloody well should, because the builder should be choosing optimum pieces of timber. Choosing quality wood is no different from choosing the rest of the components for a guitar. I wouldn't pay $3k for a guitar knowing that it was going to have a Chinese knockoff Floyd and No-Name pickups. What then makes low-quality wood anymore acceptable?
     
  2. wookie606

    wookie606 Telecaster Fetish

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    Wow, I was pretty close at one point to pulling the trigger on an S7 boden.
    Kinda glad I didn't now.
    Then I went with Mercer...

    :/
     
  3. jacksonplayer

    jacksonplayer The Fusion Guy! Contributor

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    Production vs. custom is simply the difference in how the guitar is ordered from the manufacturer. It has nothing to do with the quality level. There are plenty of expensive production guitars out there that have immaculate quality. They are built just as carefully as any custom. Some might have even better quality, since a standard model can have a more "regularized" production process.

    The high purchase price on ANY expensive guitar should be put towards things like buying better cuts of lumber, being pickier in choosing individual pieces of lumber from the pile, and obviously in putting in more individual time in the fit and finish process.

    It's worth noting that the Bodens are far more expensive than most of the guitars S7G makes, and perhaps that was the problem. S7G isn't really geared up to compete in the ultra-expensive end of the market, where people expect flawless cosmetics (perhaps too much so).
     
  4. Fred the Shred

    Fred the Shred Shrederick

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    There is no inherent distinction between custom and production guitars when it comes to the quality of the materials employed. You can have MiC customs for ridiculous prices and the "custom" nature of the guitar won't magically heighten the mats to pinnacles of quality, whereas some production companies are renowned for consistency and very high grade materials.

    Even in the case of companies like PRS, there are duds. I've seen and played them, and they exist. In the grand scheme of things, we are talking about a very small percentage. NO builder, be it the super-reputable builder or the mega high-tech corporation that has all the posh woods and 0.00000001% tolerances, is immune to problems in the instruments, and I insist there is a massive confusion between the real issue here, namely consistency, and plainly affirming every guitar they put out is shit, especially since most people haven't really played or seen one in the flesh.

    I'm not acting like the white knight that jumps into the fray to rescue the defenceless princess, mind you - there are serious issues at stake here, that require actual clarification due to their implications, and some unexplainable QC "ooopsies". Again, I had 2 S7G's. They were great. Ola's S7G's? Great as well. Played a few Bodens, of which one had a cosmetic issue and was nicely tucked away, but since it played well they handed it to me to judge sound and feel. Compare this with the suicide guitars Keith got, and the messed up stuff that's appeared online at times - it's this lack of consistency that needs addressing (as well as customer relations, evidently), almost as much as the mighty internet hate needs a bit of chilling and perspective. No benevolence, no sob stories, no burning the witch in the town square: simple facts pertaining the current situation and the prospective resolution for the customers that were affected by this.
     
  5. JaeSwift

    JaeSwift Of Blood and Sawdust

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    Very much agreed, unfortunately these video rants are making things even worse for them. If they hadn't brought up their own financial problems for example, Leonardo would probably have sent them his guitar to replace the body.

    Hell, it's the best way to directly avoid getting any orders for a while; tell everyone you're bordering on bankruptcy so no one is confident enough to pay a deposit since the chances of seeing a full fledged guitar have dramatically decreased. It's ''little'' things like this that will kill them together with the QC issues, or rather, their way of blowing up those issues by adressing them in detail in the videos.
     
  6. Blitzie

    Blitzie SS.org Regular

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    WAT
     
  7. Randy

    Randy Sous Chef Super Moderator

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    This has been my interpretation the entire time, as well. The original defect barely factor into the issue now, at this point. The videos and the vitriol, along with the name calling, calling people out by name (including the low blows to Ola) way way WAY supersede the conversation of QC issues.
     
  8. Jzbass25

    Jzbass25 SS.org Regular

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    Protip that I've learned from being on the forums for a few years, if you're a small time builder and you're having issues getting guitars out the door, stop taking orders or slow down orders until you catch up.
     
  9. Xaios

    Xaios Foolish Mortal Contributor

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    As sensible as this sounds on paper, it's sometimes simply not an option if a luthier needs to raise capital because he's only taken partial deposits and not full up-front payments. Granted, that means the luthier is probably running on an unsustainable business model to begin with, but when it reaches that point, not taking in anymore orders (and the money that comes along with them) simply isn't in the cards sometimes.
     
  10. penguin_316

    penguin_316 SS.org Regular

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    I understand you would be upset that they didn't mention the knot and shipped it to you. What I don't understand is the incredible focus of your displeasure in a "cosmetic" flaw on the back of the instrument (if you can even call it that...the nature of wood and all).

    Having said that, the "flaw" is clearly visible from the early stages of a build in that location and they should have told you or scrapped it. I"m guessing the bad customer service is more the issue than the actual knot. Right?
     
  11. Draceius

    Draceius I hate everyone on this site

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    Bingo, this entire situation could've easily been avoid (or at least the situation leonardo is in), with a phone call in the early stages when they noticed it, or just not using the wood at all, and of course this thread is like the butterfly effect, where the displeasure and grievance of one person has multiplied through and grown exponentially larger and become a mass of unsatisfied or annoyed people. Leonardo's situation cause more horror stories to come out so again, more annoyance with S7.
     
  12. Erockomania

    Erockomania Studio Geek

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    Fred, you must have noticed that like 30% of his tour was apologizing for mistakes/bad wood/blemishes, etc...

    That only worsens the perception.

    I can't imagine most builders would be apologizing thru a large part of the "in process guitar tour". S7G has issues. I'd venture to guess it's because they are in over their heads and didn't have the infrastructure, scalability and expertise in place to handle the growth.
     
  13. Nicki

    Nicki SS.org Regular

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    Well his point about slowing production down is still valid. They would just need to set the customer's expectation of a longer turnaround. If they get enough orders to sustain their bottom line for say, 6 months, then they can stop taking orders for a short time to catch up on the orders they received. Once they feel they've reached a point to where they can open orders up again while maintaining the expected turnaround, they should do so. It's not a perfect business model, but it could work for a small shop like S7.

    My two cents is that yes, Jim seems stressed, but his stress shouldn't be affecting the final product.
     
  14. Vairish

    Vairish SS.org Regular

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    Pretty much.

    In his latest update video he discusses how a guitar he sent to a customer in the UAE didn't seem to clear customs and was shipped back to Strictly 7.

    The first ever 7 string I bought was from Chris Guitars. It was a MIJ RG7420 which 2 months after ordering turned back up on Chris's doorstep. I don't know why it was returned back to the States, but Chris apologized for the delay and ended up re-shipping it express on his own dime. That's great customer service and I ended up buying a few more guitars from him.

    In Strictly 7's case they:

    • Blamed the damage the guitar sustained on it's journey on the buyer for wanting a white guitar.
    • Refused to re-ship the guitar back to the buyer because he gets the feeling that the buyer will be impossible to please (which to me really speaks volumes about how he rates the guitars that come out of his workshop.).
    • Are going to refund the buyer within the next 3 months MINUS his deposit.

    So in a situation where more than likely the buyer did nothing wrong, he is now out of pocket. That's disgraceful.
     
  15. Overtone

    Overtone SS.org Regular

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    I didn't watch that whole part but that was a shocker when he said that since he ASSUMES the guy won't be happy he loses his deposit. I totally didn't get what the guitar color had to do with anything. But the part I missed was that that guy never even laid hands on the guitar? That is nuts!
     
  16. Jzbass25

    Jzbass25 SS.org Regular

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    At this moment yeah they might not be able to afford it, which means they might be past the point of no return. That's why slowing it down, as in taking less orders at a time, is a viable option but it might not be helpful to this case. I won't go into great detail but basically figure out what he could viably handle before anything happens, known the break even/operating costs (fixed and variable), and shut down orders or slow them down if you overestimated yourself. If you need to work in the red then hopefully you're doing it above shutdown or you should possibly shutdown (depending on certain factors like length of time in the red and price vs min average cost or you could say revenue vs total cost).

    Also it seems like everyone is mad because they expected a certain lead time and haven't received it in that time, maybe the mistakes are to blame like the matte white finish being a problem but maybe they should have set longer lead times and just got the guitars out earlier if they were done earlier, then slowly adjusted the lead time to the actual time that it was going to take them. If they get back on their feet I highly recommend they set longer lead times and if the guitar is out faster then good, happier customers!

    Preplanning is always key to success imo, but yeah it isn't so black and white in every situation so I understand where you're coming from. Businesses though need good management and good accounting or this will probably happen. (Also good lawyers are a very good idea). Edit: Oh and good customer service...
     
  17. Larrikin666

    Larrikin666 Deadite

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    So let's sum up a few of the things that look especially bad for these guys right now:

    1. Jim plans on refunding 3 (or 4) builds within the next 90-120 days.
    2. He has $23,000 in wood sitting around that he can't use.
    3. His paint guy is no longer doing any work until Jim catches up on payments.
    4. Despite the one or two lunatics who recently put in orders, I can't imagine these guys are going to get much in the way of business in the next few months unless something miraculous happens.
    5. He mentioned needing rebuilds on a few guitars that he didn't have the wood for.


    .....what a terrible situation to be in.
     
  18. jacksonplayer

    jacksonplayer The Fusion Guy! Contributor

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    Knots in wood don't normally bother me that much, but this one would, since it's actually a hole in the guitar that looks like it could split over time. If it was in the middle of the guitar and wasn't open, no biggie, although I'd probably be way more bothered about that on a $3,000 guitar than I would on a Schecter.

    That bothered me, too. However, it does appear that the buyer had the guitar sent to the wrong address in the UAE.

    I don't think Jim should be out the entire cost of FedEx-ing it back to the UAE, if that's the case, but perhaps he could split the cost. We don't know both sides of what went on there, though, so that does veer into speculation.
     
  19. Randy

    Randy Sous Chef Super Moderator

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    On anything other than a Toone, if that hole was deliberate it would've been epoxied.
     
  20. Vairish

    Vairish SS.org Regular

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    If that is the case then I would have no issues with S7 asking the buyer to repay the shipping costs. Still no reason not to refund the deposit though.
     
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