How would ridiculously low notes work on regular cabs?

Discussion in 'Beginners/FAQ' started by Abaddon9112, Feb 25, 2014.

  1. Abaddon9112

    Abaddon9112 SS.org Regular

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    I've recently had a weird idea of setting up a 5 string bass in such a way that it will produce a more guitar-like tone, and essentially become an enormous 5 string baritone guitar. I think by replacing the bridge pickup with an 8 string pickup like an EMG or a Lace Deathbar, and by using thinner gauge strings, you could get a bass to have a tonality more like an eight or nine string guitar.

    My question is this: If I were to tune a five string to C-F-Bb-Eb-Ab (i.e. one half step above normal 5 string tuning), with the super light strings, played through the bridge pickup as mentioned into a high gain amp, would a regular guitar cab be capable of reproducing the lowest note in a sonically pleasing way? Would running such an instrument through a guitar cab even be safe? Or would a bass cab be a better fit, given that it is still technically a bass?

    If I do this I'll probably use a modeler anyway, but I was just wondered if it could work with a real guitar amp and cab.
     
  2. All_¥our_Bass

    All_¥our_Bass Deathly Chuuni

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    Put either a tubescreamer or eq pedal between the guitar and the amp input to remove the sounds at and below 100hz.
     
  3. lucasreis

    lucasreis ERG Ambassador

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    Interesting idea.

    But I guess you would need to modify a guitar cab for it to work properly, otherwise you would lose clarity.
     
  4. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear

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    I think it will work great. If anything you'll gain clarity by losing those ~35hz fundamentals. A tube screamer would be a good idea yeah.
     
  5. All_¥our_Bass

    All_¥our_Bass Deathly Chuuni

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    Guitar cabs aren't designed for such volume at such lowness, but reproduce the mids and highs just fine, also taking the lows out before the amp would make distortion work better and generally keep your tone clearer if you were going to use more than one note at a time ex: dyads, chords.
     
  6. abandonist

    abandonist Banned

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    It'll be fine as far as damage goes. For reproduction I'd recommend an FRFR cab such as anything by fEarful.
     
  7. Frostod

    Frostod SS.org Regular

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    Hmm I think that it would work on normal guitar cabs if you run the instrument through a guitar amp. Playing it through a bass amp could still damage the cab.
    You can also try ported guitar cabs (Thiele for example) that are "tuned" for low notes.

    you have an EQ on the other side, just turn the bass down and mids up or put a tubescreamer in between or the best thing would be a EQ pedal in the loop
     
  8. TheWarAgainstTime

    TheWarAgainstTime "TWAT" for short

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    What about the Schecter cabs with an active sub in them? Would the effect would be pretty much the same as a crossover knob on a bass rig?

    Not the same as a crossover, but could a cab like an old Randall 2x12+1x15 replicate those low notes better?
     
  9. abandonist

    abandonist Banned

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    This is patently false.
     
  10. teamSKDM

    teamSKDM SS.org Regular

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    altho this sounds like djent on a budget lol, you should be able to aquire what you wanna do by putting in like an emg which you would also need to swap out electronics for which should help you get a more guitarlike sound as well. they do make affordable 8 strings tho, any reason why youd wanna drop this money into a bass that you could just drop into a budget 8 string ? then you get to keep the bass! haha.
     
  11. Abaddon9112

    Abaddon9112 SS.org Regular

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    I'm not trying to do it on a budget, per se. I need a new bass anyway, and the extended scale length will benefit the super low string. Every production 27" scale 8 string I've heard in a 0 octave tuning sounds pretty crap, IMO. I think you need at least 30" to really get that to sound clear.

    If I get a bass, I can utilize the weird guitary setup, but I could always just put regular strings and pups in it if I want a traditional bass tone. I have more use for a bass than an eight string.
     
  12. Frostod

    Frostod SS.org Regular

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    and your are wrong.
    It all depends on what tuning and with what string gauge he plays his beast.

    Play a bass through a bass amp into your guitar cab. It will destroy the speakers on higher volumes
     
  13. abandonist

    abandonist Banned

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    I'll be happy to go toe to toe with you on this. We've had this thread 3 times that I can remember.

    That's not how speakers work. If the speakers aren't built to provide the lows you're looking for they just won't reproduce them - and perhaps not sound great. They're not going to explode. I play my bass through my guitar rig on the regular. What are you basing your opinion on?
     
  14. Frostod

    Frostod SS.org Regular

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    It is not like the speaker "don't know" the frequencies and stop producing them, they just can't play them properly or efficiently. Guitar speakers are not designed to move a lot because guitars are not designed this way (and they are not designed this way even with a 30" scale and thick strings tuned to E). If you play a bass through a bass amp into a guitar cab or even slap on it you can definitely damage the speakers as the move too much (very fast from very low frequency to high frequency). This can damage the voice coil and the beading(don't know if this is the right word) which leads to not working or damaged speakers.
    Another thing is that everything is depending on your cab and speakers. If you have 4 greenbacks your cab can handle 100W. Some Bass Amps (looking at SS amps) have a lot more than that and so they can kill the speakers too.

    Of course I am talking about playing everything on high/rehearsal volumes and not through a vintage bass amp (bassmann/orange or) but through a modern amp.
    On lower volumes you can play bass through a guitar cab.
    And because of lack of experience you can maybe play your bass/guitar hybrid through a guitar cab, but be sure that it can(!) damage your cab. If you want to play the safe route play it through a guitar amp.

    I really hope that you understand what I want to say, it's not easy to explain it as I don't know all the english words for the technical terms I want to explain.
     
  15. Abaddon9112

    Abaddon9112 SS.org Regular

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    Actually I think both would probably work similar to a crossover, if not exactly the same. Maybe more like the way the woofer in a hi-fi speaker carries the lows and the tweeter the highs. I didn't think of using a setup like that. That's actually a good idea!

    So I guess the general consensus is that it would work with a Tubescreamer/EQ up front to cut the extreme lows. Awesome. Though like I said I'll probably end up using my POD and a FRFR speaker for the time being.
     
  16. jorgercrosa

    jorgercrosa SS.org Regular

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    Hi EtherealEntity! You seem to be the guy to talk to on these things, so let me ask you this: I have a MXR EQ rack on my rig, and in order to dial out the lowest fundamentals, does it have to go before my preamp (Sansamp RBI) or is it ok to put it afterwards?

    I believe you were also interested in my baritone double neck build (28"/30.8"), mentioned in some other threads... Well, it is almost done, and I am searching this forum like crazy to see if I HAVE to get a bass cab or if I am good with what I have (2 2x12 loaded with Eminence speakers).
     
  17. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear

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    I would try it straight after the guitar for dialing out the low fundamentals - that way any preamps get hit with a cleaner signal to work with. However you're losing a lot of flexibility to tweak the overall tone with the EQ this way. I'd probably always end up running the EQ almost at the end of the chain for overall tweaking and could dial out any flubby low end before the cab there. It's not like the fundamentals are going to really cause the preamp to struggle or anything.

    Generally speaking you do not need a bass cab at all. It depends what you're going for though - for Charlie Hunter type 'bass+guitar' it's certainly a good idea. But for 99% of this forum I would say the ideal rig is likely no different to what would be used for a 6 string, with a little gain and EQ adjustment as needed.
     
  18. desmondtencents

    desmondtencents Plays With Wood!

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    Remember too that using EQ's won't eliminate any frequency. The frequencies will be attenuated (usually by up to as much as 3dB if I remember right) but not eliminated. You'd have to run multiple EQ's set to cut at the same frequency to really knock something down completely.
     
  19. jorgercrosa

    jorgercrosa SS.org Regular

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    Well, the idea was not to eliminate all frequencies below 40Hz, but to attenuate them just enough to avoid damage in guitar speakers.

    As a matter of fact, let me ask you guys this: I've read some posts from people using Eminence Basslite speakers for guitars with good (for the money) results. I am building a 2x12" cab with a Cannabis Rex and a Red White and Blues on it, but I was wondering if I should replace one of them with a Basslite S2012, mixing a guitar and a bass speaker on the same cab. Has anybody here tried that?
     
  20. Baelzebeard

    Baelzebeard Grinder of strings

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    I would just use 2 of the bass drivers. Mixing speakers with fairly different power handling and efficiency could yield undesirable results, especially if you decide you really want to hit the cab with a lot of low end.
     

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