How do you deal with sound proofing?

[makesexnotwar]

Might need to put a full stop on this insanity right there. Even if you are playing electric with no amplification at those hours, habitually, eventually someone is going to end up kicking your ass.

See, this is why I thought you were trolling.

Let's be 100% honest. How realistic is it for you to move into a rented flat in Berlin and build a room encapsulated within some extra full-size bedroom that you are just going to have, without your landlord or the city authorities giving you any grief, in order to play your music loudly there at 1:00 in the morning while your kids are asleep in the next room? And your spouse/partner is going to agree to all of this?

This is not possible. Full stop. Forget about it.

Actually when I described this idea to my wife she was totally ok with that. She just knows how that whole playing thing is important for me. Regarding playing time that I mentioned - it's literally the time that I used to play for past 5-6 years. I know it probably hard to believe and might look like a trolling but it was my reality and I was quite lucky to have that.

there's still going to be SOME bleed

For sure there will be some bleed but I think the biggest part of that bleed won't pass outside of the "outer room". Anyway even if I decide to build this thing the only proper way to find out how effective it is is to test it. The hardest part to handle would probably be the outer wall with a window. Regarding the headphones - DT770 are ok but still I prefer monitors. I might try some open-backs if I decide not to implement this crazy project.

 

[Drew]

Actually when I described this idea to my wife she was totally ok with that. She just knows how that whole playing thing is important for me. Regarding playing time that I mentioned - it's literally the time that I used to play for past 5-6 years. I know it probably hard to believe and might look like a trolling but it was my reality and I was quite lucky to have that.


For sure there will be some bleed but I think the biggest part of that bleed won't pass outside of the "outer room". Anyway even if I decide to build this thing the only proper way to find out how effective it is is to test it. The hardest part to handle would probably be the outer wall with a window. Regarding the headphones - DT770 are ok but still I prefer monitors. I might try some open-backs if I decide not to implement this crazy project.

No, the hardest part to handle will be your landlord not evicting you for having a MAJOR construction project inside a rental without his or her permission.

 

[makesexnotwar]

No, the hardest part to handle will be your landlord not evicting you for having a MAJOR construction project inside a rental without his or her permission.

I think it depends on how it actually will be implemented. If the finishing won't be affected at all then who cares?

 

[bostjan]

I think it depends on how it actually will be implemented. If the finishing won't be affected at all then who cares?

Landlords, lawyers, neighbours, insurance companies, etc.

 

[tedtan]

Landlords, lawyers, neighbours, insurance companies, etc.

Along with housing and urban development agencies, historical commissions/societies, local licensing boards, etc.

 

[Drew]

I think it depends on how it actually will be implemented. If the finishing won't be affected at all then who cares?

I know the joke is it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, but I strongly suggest having this conversation up front before you start.

 

[makesexnotwar]

I think a month after moving to new country I don't feel that stressed anymore and I started to think a bit more sober. Also using DT770 for practicing during past 2 weeks give surprisingly good results especially comparing to past bad experience with ATH M50. So maybe in general it's not as bad as I originally thought. However I might still try some open-back headphones in near future. I'll probably still use some kind of monitor setup as well but probably I'll limit this crazy idea by just hanging some acoustic panels to absorb internal vibrations etc and then will act according to the actual volume tests.

 

[Mortargag]

Although I agree with the majority comments in this thread regarding practical compromises, I'm going to roll with the ask and give my 2 cents on how I would actually accomplish this. Keep in mind, this is a quick design and I'm a reasonably seasoned DIYer but not a professional.

Thinking 8ft x 8ft room w/ 7ft ceiling
Lay 1" thick rubber mat (farm stores, horse stall mat).
Attach neoprene strips the length of a 2x4 for your floor joists. ***If you have the vertical space, 2x6 would allow more insulation but I'm assuming you have an 8ft ceiling.
Lay floor joists at 24" on center.
Frame around the perimeter of your joists with additional neoprene lined 2x4s.
Frame uprights (more 2x4) at 24" on center. Install top plate (more 2x4's).
Frame in ceiling with additional 2x4, similar to floor.
Apply acoustic caulk to all seams.
Wrap the framed-in box with mass loaded vinyl.
Cover exterior of box with drywall.
Install insulation in stud bays, floor, walls and ceiling. Rockwool or some such high density insulation.
Wrap inside with another layer of mass loaded vinyl.
Drywall inside of the box.
Add sound panels to temper the sound inside the box.

This does not cover adding electrical outlets, lights, etc in the room. You would need to figure out ventilation as well.

Without doing any math, I'd say this would cost around $5k+ to do (in the States) without paying for additional labor, tools, and the utilities I mentioned above.

 

[c7spheres]

Soundproofing is all about high density and air flow. It's expensive no matter how you try to do it. - The least expensive way to do it is by using sandbags in a frame, with an air gap and rubber thick rubber sheeting for it walls and cieling. Total cost for a 10x15 probably about a few thousand and a lot of work any landlord will likey say no to approving. If you do it the 'real; way it;d cost a lot more. - If you can find a bunch of used memory foam matresses those work well too but cost a lot too. Pretty much anything dense. Unless it's super dense foam is more for treatment of a room. MIneral fiber board is great for killing a lot of initial volume but it's like $200 a sheet. As mention already by others fiberglass type stuff like Corning etc is the standard but guess what? It's expensive. The cost of soundproofing could equal more guitars and an AxeFx III, real amps, studio load boxes etc with money to spare. If cost is no issue I'd still keep in mind to make it temporary so you can take it with you or sell it if you ever moved. People use multiple moveable stackable gobos (go betweens) so they can create different spaces too inside their room. - Oe studio out here had 6 or 8 of them about 1 foot by 4x8 feet. We'd move them stacke them etc to make rooms in rooms and partition off for drums vocals etc. If you make a box you can put a 4x12 in them etc. The work great, but again, insanley expensive.

 

[cindarkness]

Although I agree with the majority comments in this thread regarding practical compromises, I'm going to roll with the ask and give my 2 cents on how I would actually accomplish this. Keep in mind, this is a quick design and I'm a reasonably seasoned DIYer but not a professional.

Thinking 8ft x 8ft room w/ 7ft ceiling
Lay 1" thick rubber mat (farm stores, horse stall mat).
Attach neoprene strips the length of a 2x4 for your floor joists. ***If you have the vertical space, 2x6 would allow more insulation but I'm assuming you have an 8ft ceiling.
Lay floor joists at 24" on center.
Frame around the perimeter of your joists with additional neoprene lined 2x4s.
Frame uprights (more 2x4) at 24" on center. Install top plate (more 2x4's).
Frame in ceiling with additional 2x4, similar to floor.
Apply acoustic caulk to all seams.
Wrap the framed-in box with mass loaded vinyl.
Cover exterior of box with drywall.
Install insulation in stud bays, floor, walls and ceiling. Rockwool or some such high density insulation.
Wrap inside with another layer of mass loaded vinyl.
Drywall inside of the box.
Add sound panels to temper the sound inside the box.

This does not cover adding electrical outlets, lights, etc in the room. You would need to figure out ventilation as well.

Without doing any math, I'd say this would cost around $5k+ to do (in the States) without paying for additional labor, tools, and the utilities I mentioned above.

I think I would literally die in a 6m2 room with a 4x12 in it.

 

[Drew]

I'll probably still use some kind of monitor setup as well but probably I'll limit this crazy idea by just hanging some acoustic panels to absorb internal vibrations etc

FWIW, this isn't very effective at sound-proofing. It's much better at acoustic tuning - it takes an awful lot of mass to really "absorb" low end, so the focus with bass trapping is really to handle reflected low end, with the use of airspace behind a trap so that it can handle a much longer reflected wavelength than it can the length of wave passing through it. The upshot is even if you have bass traps that can handle reflections inside the room down to 200hz or so - a pretty good outcome - the liklihood is they're really only helping take the edge out of wavelengths probably 4x higher than that as they bleed out of the room.

tl;dr - when listening from outside the room, the walls are going to make a hell of a lot more difference than your typical bass trapping will, even if it improves the frequency response inside the room fairly audibly.

 

[Mortargag]

I think I would literally die in a 6m2 room with a 4x12 in it.

Oh yes. I remember playing in a 4-piece band as a teen in my friends dad's workshop. It was so loud I am surprised I can still hear. The far-side of the drummers crash cymbal would flip when he hit it and nail the headstock of my guitar because we were so packed in together.

I think not being "sealed" was the only thing that gave any kind of reprieve from the epic racket that 4 teenage metalheads produce in that tiny thing...