Half-Speed Recording Trend

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by Adonai678, Jul 5, 2016.

  1. Adonai678

    Adonai678 Drink Teh Milk!

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    Hey guys,
    So I wish I could provide examples of some bands recording their stuff at half speed or a sped up rather, but that would be in bad taste and I'm not trying to brew up hate. But I've noticed a huuge trend in bands (and some shredders) putting out videos and small recordings of them "playing" their .... and its usually really obvious to the trained ear that they CANNOT play that that clean and certain notes ring out and sustain too much to be true. Don't get me wrong, we all know of the awesome shredders out there and bands that have insane guitarists, but I think there's some integrity lost when you don't openly admit it and shower in the compliments. And look, I'm not really knocking the technique or "trick" of recording it at a slow temp then speeding it up... as shady as it is.. I am just criticizing those who put stuff out there and give off this air of "I have transcended mankind" in their playing. Again, all of this is soapbox stuff and I'm sure these dudes are still really talented, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when you aren't open. I wish you all good energy at the end of the day :hbang:

    tl;dr people are recording at half speed and being all shady
     
  2. A-Branger

    A-Branger SS.org Regular

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    any proof of stuff recorded at "lower speeds" and speed up in post?

    or you are taking that assumption due to the artist not being able to play their solo "clean" on a guitar playtrough?


    speed up stuff would trow the guitar tone out of the window. Maybe a tinny speed up not THAT much?. But still it would sound awfull, and its a risky thing for the player, as if he/she cant play that on a controled environment of a studio how they pretend to play that in live? when usually stuff gets played bit faster. I would say some people might use a slight speed adjust just to compensate for a lack of consistent tempo of the solo rather than make things eassier (like the guy finish his solo a 1/16-1/8 note before the bar finish as he was playing ahead of the tempo during the whole solo), but due to being a "solo" it doesnt need to be "precise and perfect tempo", so this scenario would be very very very limited

    regarding on the "clean" playing for a record vs a youtube playtrough, then there is a lot of recording tricks done to make your tone as clean as possible. Plus also remember that in the context of a mix you might dotn notice the other notes ringing out (if they happen to let those go in the recording)

    usually on a recording they guy have been pleying the solo for sooooo many takes that hes already in perfect shape to do a clean passage. As long he plays 1 out of 35 times then thats the point of a recording, to get the best performance. Some guys are able to play their stuff on the first go clean and on tempo, other people need to do it 30 times and they still might be slight out of tempo (this is when you know who grew up practicing with a metronome and who didnt)

    - then they could be just play one lick at a time. So the solo you hear is actually 4 different takes patched togueter

    -also all the different tricks to stop the other strings ringing. By putting a headband on the neck, using masking tape on the strings not being played, and using a buddy to mute the other strings. All this so the player can just concentrate on getting the solo done and not on muting technique

    ect ect
     
  3. OmegaSlayer

    OmegaSlayer SS.org Regular

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    Some names associated with speeding up the tempos are Dragonforce and Ring Of Saturn.
    Just mentioning what is said around the net, but I have no proof whatsoever.
     
  4. Dayn

    Dayn silly person

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    To put it nicely, I honestly don't give a .....

    It only matters if it's meant to be played live. Apart from Sam most likely being drunk when he stuffed up the intro to Through the Fire and the Flames, they nailed the entire set up to speed perfectly when I saw them live. It was an incredible performance.

    Not that I have any reason to believe they record it slower anyway besides unfounded rumours. It sounds good, and they play it live extremely well. That's all that matters.
     
  5. marcwormjim

    marcwormjim SS.org Regular

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    Now that we're firmly in the age of guitarists getting endorsements strictly for videos of themselves playing "crazy" stuff in their bedrooms, I must admit I've experienced a few disappointing realizations that I'm not watching an honest take:

    Whether it's the audio track having been replaced with a separately-recorded/tweaked "perfect" take (sometimes it's a pantomime cover; with the audio being the original, copyrighted full-band recording), awkward limb movements/fast bedroom clocks implying speed shenanigans, or just a lot of really sloppy playing that has multiple HD camera angles cutting between obviously different takes under a separately-recorded audio track that was also sloppy, I end up feeling bad for giving these channels another hit.

    When the number of hits on a video is the bottom line, it's easy to understand why capable players cut corners in the production. But it's just as easy for players punching above their weight to simply check the boxes needed to clickbait themselves toward getting free gear or at least a gimmick-earned spotlight on ultimate-guitar or metalsucks.

    Guthrie Govan owes his career to YouTube - So it can't be all bad, and there's always room to grift any system. I feel it's the hype bandwagons found on sites such as this who are to blame for elevating fools and charlatans into heroes.

    They shouldn't even be bothering with production-cheats: All anyone needs to be famous is to be easily hated. And so I try to just bear in mind that many of these shenanigan-artists will never get enough of a push from YouTube to quit their dayjobs, no matter how many metal rearrangements or thumbnails with easily-hateable faces they upload with "exclusive" bonus footage to Patreon.
     
  6. Floppystrings

    Floppystrings No like the floppy

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    I have tried it before to see if I could tell myself if it was altered...

    It's pretty hard to tell honestly.
     
  7. Sumsar

    Sumsar SS.org Regular

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    Well if we widen the scope to music in general, pretty much everything is fake to some degree.

    Vocals: Editing editing and editing, and a good amount of autotune / pitch correction is done for 99% * of vocals, both in metal and even more in the pop world. Also a ton of compression and volume automation helps producers make vocals sound 'perfect'.

    Drums: Sample replacement, time-alignment (beat-detective) or even completely programming the entire drumkit are pretty much the industry standard for drums these days. Few bands make due without, but say 90% * of productions use some or all of these tricks to fake or improve performances.

    Bass: Programming or editing-till-death as well as pitchcorrection (autotune) to deal with intonation problems and / or sloppy playing.

    Guitar: Editing, a thousand noisegates, a thousand takes (and edits), note by note takes, use of all sorts of muting devices to make stuff sound cleaner etc. And apparently some people also just speedup there performances to improve them.

    All in all, little of what you hear on albums these days are real, or atleast they are only partly real. Some do it because they like that production style, and others because they want to appear better than they are.

    I remember being shocked when I first heard people like Eyal Levy and Joey Sturgis talking about all these tricks as industri standards, and how it is rare NOT to do it, but having done a good amount of production myself at this point it is actually really easy to hear that most stuff out there is faked to some degree.

    So do some people record at slower tempos and speed it up? Probably, but it is just one of many ways to 'cheat' in audio production, and it is done for everything.

    It seems it is no longer only 'fix it in the mix/editing' but 'improve it in the mix/editing'.

    Personally I prefer music that has some flaws and sound like they actually used real drums, guitars and vocals. Like the latest Gorguts album.

    * Yes I pull numbers out of my ass.
     
  8. ArtHam

    ArtHam SS.org Regular

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    Epitaph by Necrophagist was almost entirely recorded note for note. It was a sound they went for. They recorded guitars for that for 8 months. Yet it's being treated like one of the biggest masterpieces in metal. Can't be too much of a big deal then.

    Yes they can play it live.

    But they didn't record it that way.

    It's a huge deal when the Haarp Machine does it, but Necrophagist and Periphery can get away with it.
     
  9. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear

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    You would be surprised. When you think sped up it's easy to think of chipmunk voice type stuff, but you can record a guitar DI and more than double the tempo before reamping it and it sounds fine. And then there's the sampling/heavy editing method that doesn't actually involve speeding up.

    The giveaway is in the attack though. It's something the trained ear can hear for sure. But that's what makes it appealing to do, like mentioned above re. Necrophagist.

    I have nothing against the method at all. When it comes to music, I care only for the end product. Nothing says to me that certain genres have to provide more authenticity or performance than say, programmed electronic music. It's just something lots of people have come to expect, listening to metal for at least some instrumental prowess alongside pure musical enjoyment. That's fine, but I think it's also important to be able to accept musical output no matter how it was made. After all, where do you draw the line between it being ok to disregard 'programmed' metal as 'fake' in some way, and it not being ok to be an elitist that says electro etc. "isn't real music"?

    The only problem I have is with people who will deny it, or use it to their advantage e.g guitar solo contests. The Lucas Mann thing was pretty hilarious. Absolutely anyone who has done studio work knew exactly what they were hearing, but he adamantly denied it because he knew the main fanbase wouldn't know or care. That, I think, is wrong. On a personal level. But takes nothing away from his music itself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2016
  10. Lorcan Ward

    Lorcan Ward 7slinger

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    Dragonforce don't speed up their tracks. Its a lot of takes edited together which so many bands do. They just got a lot of hate for it because their live performances went to s**t, which was mostly down to drinking.

    Rings of Saturn is an obvious one thats been discussed a lot on this board.

    Like them The Haarp Machine and tons of other bands edit together notes and tiny takes to get ridiculously tight guitars:


    I think that sounds amazing. Its so clear you can hear every note. With most other bands it sounds like guitar pro.
     
  11. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear

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    I'm tracking my EP with two guitars recorded normally and two recorded at 70% blended in. The sped up tracks add a little clarity to the original doubletrack, and you get the fatness of quadtracking without the generally expected loss of clarity over doubletracking.
     
  12. drmosh

    drmosh Sir Paul of the Mosh Contributor

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    proof?
     
  13. ArtHam

    ArtHam SS.org Regular

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    Of course none other than asking 3 of the 4 people who play on it about it and them telling me. It is one of the industries' worst kept 'secrets'. It's not like anybody would upload videos of them recording single notes going 'this is how we recorded epitaph', so no tangible proof there I'm afraid. Even when the album was released I remember people talking about the fact they recorded guitars for 8 months and putting single notes together.
     
  14. Demiurge

    Demiurge Intrepid Jackass

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    For the most part, I believe that a recording is primarily about the music composition itself and that most production methods & tricks are fair game. The band assumes the risk to their reputation if they can't play the material as well live.

    There is some music, however, whose raison d'etre is the virtuosity of the performance itself and it's only in those cases where studio trickery may be disconcerting. Really, for a lot of "tech" metal, the only thing going for it is the impressive performance of the material that by itself isn't always compelling.
     
  15. The Mirror

    The Mirror SS.org Regular

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    Though it's not the main topic of this thread at this point I definitely want to take up the cudgels for Dragonforce.

    They are not my kind of music, they are cheesy af, but I saw them somewhat around '11 and they were spot on.

    They played everything perfectly and even included those ridiculous trampolines in their performance.

    They can play all the songs and they don't seem to me to be the guys who have to "speed up" their recordings to be better or stuff.

    Of course they had their bad days after suddenly becoming a household band (graspop' 06 is all I have to say), but for more than 6 years they are a technically excellent band.
     
  16. DLG

    DLG not guthrie govan

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    I don't care if they do it or not, I think the results sound stupid.

    I have no desire to listen to something that sounds like a guitar pro project.

    There are plenty tech bands from Watchtower to Spiral Architect to Martyr and Theory of Practice who have been able to record hyper technical metal music without making it sound like midi.
     
  17. mightypudge

    mightypudge Wearer of Slacks

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    Honestly, that is kind of fascinating. Never heard of this technique before. I'd be interested in hearing the results.
     
  18. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    It's music, not the olympics.
     
  19. Random3

    Random3 SS.org Regular

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    If you make something that sounds good then no one should care how you arrived at that sound. It doesn't matter if the entire thing is 100% digital.

    However, the moment you start lying to people and claim that you are actually that good is the moment where it is no longer ok.
     
  20. Tree

    Tree Bald Bear

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    I'm pretty sure the recording engineer that worked on Epitaph mentioned it on the old Sneap forum.
     

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