Guitarist / musicians you don't care for, but respect?

estabon37

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Deadmau5.
I respect his attitude, especially where it comes to being transparent about the fact that he and his fellow EDM artists just "hit play" live, he's got a pretty killer light show, I love the mouse head thing...

...That said, though, I don't like his music at all. I honestly prefer Skrillex over most of his stuff I've heard- go ahead and take that for what you will.

Sorry to dig up an old comment, but this had me intrigued, so I looked around for the 'admission'. Blog. Article. The article expands on the main points the mouse makes on his tumblr, but more importantly, it doesn't ignore spelling and grammar (I'm a dick).

I guess I can now jump on the 'respect but don't care for' bandwagon when it comes to this guy. I think many of the comments here boil down to my feelings on the subject: if the artist is passionate about what they do, puts in the effort to achieve their musical goals, and isn't a giant arsehole, then it's relatively easy to respect them.

So, with those criteria in mind, I'm going to throw a potentially controversial name out there: Kanye West. Apparently he falls down horribly in the 'giant arsehole' category, but I'm not exposed to the kinds of media that pays attention to him, so I don't have to deal with that element. All I know about him is that of the roughly 10 songs I've heard more than once, there's scope, dynamics, variety, and experimentation. When I hear a Kanye song, I usually hear somebody that is at least somewhat trying to challenge himself, or to achieve something he hasn't yet.

I'm more than happy to be told I'm wrong about Kanye by somebody that pays more attention to his process than I do. His is just the only name I can think of where I don't think I'll ever be a true fan of the sound, but I can hear something in the songs that genuinely stands above everything else I've heard in the same genre.
 

extendedsolo

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Kanye West.

He has been around for 12 years and has produced more good music than any other mainstream rapper in that time. Some rappers have better individual songs/albums, but not a complete body of work. I do not care that he is a huge a-hole.

I kinda have mixed feelings about Tosin as a guitarist. Lots of respect for the recorded material- some AAL tunes get regular rotation while I'm working - but any video I've seen of him just playing at a guitar show or something has left me kinda disappointed. He's basically got his one or two tricks (they're pretty good tricks, I'll concede), but is otherwise a bit sloppy, and uses a really sloppy/oversaturated tone.

I'll add Jeff Loomis to the list of people that I respect as being a better guitarist than me in most respects, but sweet jebus the tones he comes up with are terrible. And a lot of his stuff is just mindless shredding, which gets really old really quick.

With Loomis sooooo much of his stuff is diminished based and it sounds stale really fast. I do applaud him for being able to do so much with so little in that regard though.
 

TedEH

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^ With Loomis, I can get past the actual songwriting/content, cause some of it's pretty decent (I really dig the song Tragedy and Harmony, but mostly for the vocals), but I feel like people praise his "tone" because of the playing, not because the tone itself is any good. I was sent a video a while back of Loomis demoing some gear, I can't remember what it was (some signature thing, or a boost or something he was endorsing...? who knows), but it was accompanied with a comment about how great the tone was, and "would be cool if I could get a tone half that good" etc., but it was a horrible grating tone that basically sounded like instead of using any preamp, they just stacked 50 tube screamers with the tone knobs on full- it was all scrape-y djent-y scratch-y nonsense.

... to my ears anyway :lol:
 

extendedsolo

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I'll flip this thread on its head, as i used to think the blues/jazz guys were technically inferior to the shredders only to then take lessons from a jazz guy and he opened my eyes and ears to what the jazz and blues guys were playing over. Not just soloing over E note chugging and the occasional power chord. Way more respect now for those guys.

Jazz music is just such a different way of thinking about the instrument. Rock/metal is about simplicity and effectiveness of a simple idea and can be constraining in some ways. Jazz is about freedom. In order to achieve that freedom though it takes years of study and practice and doesn't always resonate with untrained ears. I think that most good jazz musicians could step into any type of band with minimal rehearsing. Metal/Rock musicians can't.

^ With Loomis, I can get past the actual songwriting/content, cause some of it's pretty decent (I really dig the song Tragedy and Harmony, but mostly for the vocals), but I feel like people praise his "tone" because of the playing, not because the tone itself is any good. I was sent a video a while back of Loomis demoing some gear, I can't remember what it was (some signature thing, or a boost or something he was endorsing...? who knows), but it was accompanied with a comment about how great the tone was, and "would be cool if I could get a tone half that good" etc., but it was a horrible grating tone that basically sounded like instead of using any preamp, they just stacked 50 tube screamers with the tone knobs on full- it was all scrape-y djent-y scratch-y nonsense.

... to my ears anyway :lol:
yeah I don't get too riled up over tone in demo videos. I think some of his rhythm tones on the Nevermore albums is just amazing. Lead tone is just ok, but he makes up for it by writing a solo that really fits the song. His strength is definitely songwriting though.
 

tedtan

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I think that most good jazz musicians could step into any type of band with minimal rehearsing. Metal/Rock musicians can't.

Not sure I agree here. If you mean sitting in with or doing studio work on a pop, R&B, modern rock or country gig, sure.

But while the jazz musician probably understands what's going on in the music, I've not known many jazz musicians, guitarists in particular, that had the techniques down to sit in with a flamenco, bluegrass or metal band without first practicing to get up to speed. And solo classical guitar is a whole different ball game (though that's not really a band setting).
 

USMarine75

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Jazz music is just such a different way of thinking about the instrument. Rock/metal is about simplicity and effectiveness of a simple idea and can be constraining in some ways. Jazz is about freedom. In order to achieve that freedom though it takes years of study and practice and doesn't always resonate with untrained ears. I think that most good jazz musicians could step into any type of band with minimal rehearsing. Metal/Rock musicians can't.


yeah I don't get too riled up over tone in demo videos. I think some of his rhythm tones on the Nevermore albums is just amazing. Lead tone is just ok, but he makes up for it by writing a solo that really fits the song. His strength is definitely songwriting though.

Haha I bought a Fireball 100 and Loomis 7 string precisely because I wanted his tone from The Obsidian Conspiracy. Oh well. :shred:
 

MartinMTL

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Not sure I agree here. If you mean sitting in with or doing studio work on a pop, R&B, modern rock or country gig, sure.

But while the jazz musician probably understands what's going on in the music, I've not known many jazz musicians, guitarists in particular, that had the techniques down to sit in with a flamenco, bluegrass or metal band without first practicing to get up to speed. And solo classical guitar is a whole different ball game (though that's not really a band setting).

Most jazz guitarists I know can shred the .... out of their instrument. They just don't necessarily pull out the speed very often. But when they do... whooo. It's clean and it's fast. Over changes. You don't practice 6-8 hours a day, for years without getting any faster.
 

ArtDecade

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^ Jazz and Metal technique are not the same thing. Jimmy Bruno can out play Papa Het over changes, but he doesn't have the right hand to compete in a riff-off. Just because James wasn't spending 6-8 hours a day working on voicing-types and phrases doesn't mean that they were wasted. Instead, he developed his impeccable rhythm technique.
 

TedEH

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^ Maybe this belongs in the unpopular opinions thread, but seems to me like jazz elitism is just the same as metal elitism. There are great and terrible musicians in both genres. "People who play X genre are better instrumentalists than those who play Y genre" is nonsense, IMO.

As always, :lol: and :2c: and whatever other smileys it takes to make sure nobody takes my opinion personally.
 

MartinMTL

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^ Maybe this belongs in the unpopular opinions thread, but seems to me like jazz elitism is just the same as metal elitism. There are great and terrible musicians in both genres. "People who play X genre are better instrumentalists than those who play Y genre" is nonsense, IMO.

As always, :lol: and :2c: and whatever other smileys it takes to make sure nobody takes my opinion personally.

I like to think that I excel in playing them both terribly. :lol:

I still meant actual 16th note scale/arpeggio runs, but doesn't matter. In the end I agree with all these last statements, for myself as well haha.
 

bhakan

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^ Maybe this belongs in the unpopular opinions thread, but seems to me like jazz elitism is just the same as metal elitism. There are great and terrible musicians in both genres. "People who play X genre are better instrumentalists than those who play Y genre" is nonsense, IMO.

As always, :lol: and :2c: and whatever other smileys it takes to make sure nobody takes my opinion personally.
I should probably take this rant to the unpopular opinions thread, but oh my god I'm so sick of jazz/music school kids who are convinced that jazz/music school trained musicians can do anything. I've specifically had the conversation about drummers multiple times and gotten really frustrated when two different friends were convinced that any great jazz drummer could play metal well. I don't at all want to detract from jazz as those dudes have got insane chops, but they're just so different from metal chops. I don't doubt that a super talented jazz drummer could pull off the speed for metal, but maybe not the stamina to keep it up for an entire set, and definitely nowhere near the power behind the hits that's necessary to make metal drums sound good. I still think jazz tends to have the highest general level of instrumental proficiency, but incredible proficiency at one aspect of your instrument doesn't always translate to different environments.

EDIT: Should probably actually contribute to the thread topic instead of just derailing it. For me the biggest one is blues players. They're absolutely amazing guitarists but so so many different rock bands have been using blues licks and blues solos for so long that by the time I set out to gain an appreciation for the greats I felt like I'd heard everything already.
 

extendedsolo

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EDIT: Should probably actually contribute to the thread topic instead of just derailing it. For me the biggest one is blues players. They're absolutely amazing guitarists but so so many different rock bands have been using blues licks and blues solos for so long that by the time I set out to gain an appreciation for the greats I felt like I'd heard everything already.

OHHHH good one! I've decided that it's because much of the 70s rock was really blues based and played so many licks that it's hard for it to sound fresh.
 

marcwormjim

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The "jazz players are virtuosos" myth is propagated by jazzers. They're saying any apple is capable of being an orange; because an apple is harder.
 

TedEH

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trained musicians can do anything.

Only kind of vaguely related, but I find I get frustrated with people who are convinced that any one artist is the end-all of all playing and insist that it should be my goal to study that very artist, lest my time as a musician be otherwise wasted. Like those people who insist that Neil Peart is the best drummer in the world, and anything heavier than Rush is a "waste of talent". I like Rush and all, but there are better drummers out there. It digs at me to no end when someone decides to tell me I've "wasted my talent" because I don't produce something to their taste.
 


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