Great opinion piece about amp modeling...

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by Cancer, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. Cancer

    Cancer Cancer:The Crucifuct

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    klinic, cwhitey2, Kr1zalid and 10 others like this.
  2. Northern

    Northern SS.org Regular

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    Great read!
    I am glad more people completely agrees with me.
     
  3. Demiurge

    Demiurge Intrepid Jackass

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    Good article. I wasn't really following the discussion board threads that inspired the post, so it was hard to tell if the extremity of the positions he was arguing against were straw men- then he posts the email he received at the end:

    Yeesh. Not to take anything away from the expertise of old-school studio engineers, but it's not necessarily an injustice when a tool comes along that can make certain things easier (such as tracking guitars). Is that email implying that amp modelling should be deliberately defamed as to not discourage people from using recording studios?
     
  4. MrPowers

    MrPowers SS.org Regular

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    I really enjoyed the read and I always appreciate a valid argument. There is one point in there against modelers that I noticed that made since to me though. And I can't stress enough that I said TO ME. I started on modeling processors like many other guitarists and I always dreamed of having a (name your brand here) full stack. Now that I have a (name your brand here) stack it gives me a thrill that modeling can never do for me. You can probably get the same or better tone out of a modeling amp but if its not causing you to feel your playing or causing you to love what you do then for me its not worth it. A tube amp may not be the most practical but it gives me confidence that bleeds into my playing and adds feeling to my songs. If you can get the same feeling from a modeler then by all means do so, but for ME a tube amp and pedalboard is the only way to achieve that.
     
  5. Mordacain

    Mordacain Formerly 1-watt brigadier

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    Great read and thanks for posting :yesway:
     
  6. leftyguitarjoe

    leftyguitarjoe Correct-handed

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    Awesome article. As a tube amp owner, I still loved it.

    Well, I'm only a tube amp owner till I can get an AxeFx.
     
  7. SirMyghin

    SirMyghin The Dirt Guy Contributor

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    he forgot one argument : Menus suck:lol:

    I hate menus so much, otherwise a very well written article, with some sound arguments, but like the man above me, I am in no rush to discard my amplifier and pedal board, I acquired after axe fx release anyway.
     
  8. MerlinTKD

    MerlinTKD EIght.Fold.Path / Hinge Theory Contributor

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    VERY cool essay. I'm in complete agreement.

    Of course, it's interesting how certain analog technologies keep coming back; when solid-state came around, folks said it was the end of the vacuum tube, but it wasn't so. I expect modeling will be similarly 'folded in' to current tech and 20 years on, we'll wonder what the fighting was all about. :)
     
  9. vanhendrix

    vanhendrix SS.org Regular

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    Interesting read, but I felt that he left out/glossed over a couple points:

    1. A technology that simply models existing devices (no matter how perfect) doesn't create anything new. It's useful as all hell, but it's just trying to duplicate something that is already out there.


    2. The psychological reaction to your gear. As a couple people have said already, just being in the room with your amp inspires you. In this early stage of modeling, nobody has yet grown up wishing to be just like their hero playing the axe fx - and as long as the 'new model' completely outpaces the old one in such a way that it becomes almost obsolete, nobody will any time soon.


    I don't want to start/join a big fight here. Those are just my two cents.
     
  10. Espaul

    Espaul SS.org Regular

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    Us "old timers" (I'm not really that old, but old in my mind) get inspiration from our gear and get a better feel from hearing the sound out of a cabinet instead of the monitors of the computer. But it is as you said just because we are used to getting inspired that way. It will change.

    I wish I had the money for an axe-fx!
     
  11. flint757

    flint757 SS.org Regular

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    Ya I have nothing against modellers, but tube power amps and a cab are a must for the in the room experience. I could care less if the preamp is tube or modeller or solid state as long as it sounds good. My 11R sounds awesome through my Mark IV and sounds good through my monitors, but not as good as through my amp. Not wiling to invest in an axe-fx until prices drop more.

    The one thing that honestly depresses me a bit is superior drummer (and similar products) because now guitarists just program there own drums which is good, but IMO mostly bad. Mastodon, TOOL and even LOG have amazing drummers whether you like their music or not. The software would be great if it were in their hands I think or even plugged into an electric kit to be tracked in by good drummers. There are notable exceptions that pull it off well, but I can't help thinking we lost something in the process and are left with very generic drum beats/patterns.

    As you can tell I think very highly of drums being integral to a great song after all TOOL would be quite bland without Danny.
     
  12. vanhendrix

    vanhendrix SS.org Regular

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    I'm 24 :lol:
     
  13. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Both Line 6 and Fractal have crafted unique "amps" within their modeling systems that aren't based on any amp in particular, but are a new, unique process. Programs such as Revalver allow you to pretty much "build" an amp from the ground up.
     
  14. Stealthdjentstic

    Stealthdjentstic Banned

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    Straight up, like the Big Bottom? That's pretty much the origin of djent right there :lol:

    Also $100 paypal'd to the first guy that can tell the difference between a tube amp and a modeled amp on a recording at least 6/10 times. You really can't even tell anymore, doesn't sound like that squishy shitty pod anymore.
     
  15. littledoc

    littledoc Go meat!

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    Great piece. I used to have a very nice 100w all-tube head. Now I have a 75w Spider IV, and I think it sounds frakking awesome. Honestly, if a tube amp has a particular tone I like, I'll go for it. I don't have anything against the technology. But it's not 'better', and I scoff at anyone who thinks they can tell the difference between the technologies.

    I saw an interview with Per Nilsson (Scar Symmetry) where he said that he only tours with a POD floorboard, and goes directly into the PA. A lot easier than carting around a half-stack or two, and there's no way on earth anyone could tell the difference. And, Per contended, you actually get a purer live sound going direct, since there's less bleed from all the other instruments on stage.
     
  16. getaway_fromme

    getaway_fromme SS.org Regular

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    Seriously, Line 6's own custom models are head and shoulders above their modeled ones. They just need to make their own amp lol
     
  17. SilenceIsACrime

    SilenceIsACrime Indeed.

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    Perfect article.
     
  18. Loomer

    Loomer Comfortably Dumb

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    Yeah, modelling is all well and good... But no fucking way am I giving up the thrill of letting shit rip through a big-ass amp stack or two. It's fine for fiddling around at home, but I just don't get these geeks that willingly take this needlessly complex space shuttle nonsense out on the road. Effects are neat and all, but to me it's just like taking along a fully equipped, NASA-grade Laboratory when you'd be perfectly well off with just a hammer.
     
  19. Explorer

    Explorer He seldomly knows...

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    In before, "Your tone was the best I had ever heard in my whole life, so I got closer to see what you were using. You were using a modeler. You should get a tube amp, you'd sound better!" *laugh*

    I was talking with our head of IT about the days where we'd punch cards, and then wait a day for the compiles to come back. Thank goodness those days are gone.

    Did you all know that buggy whip makers were wiped when people started using automobiles in great numbers? There were those die-hards who talked about how a horse is better and more reliable, and as the auto evolved, and more of the infrastructure supporting horses as transportation dried up, the more those die-hards groused.

    I think about this sometimes, especially since we're only in the early days of modeling. Friends of mine who are engineers, and who own lots of high-end equipment, do a lot with plug-ins, and have no problem with using software over analog gear. Although there might be some engineers who won't use software, for others the days of editing with a knife are over.

    Isn't it horrible how easy it has become to prepare more complicated tax returns just using software?
     
  20. Stealthdjentstic

    Stealthdjentstic Banned

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    Ugh if I had a dollar everytime I heard that...


    BUT DUDE MAN DIGIT4lz sux!
     

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