good ole pickups don't do it for me in a new guitar - is it really the wood? or, what else can be done

[Tuned]

I owned an EBMM JP7 no-piezo that I'd bought here on SSO, a nice guitar but I sold it, to my later regret.
So after a while I bought an ESP E-II MR Seven (V,T, 5-way superswitch) and traded the stock pickups for a CrunchLab / LiquiFire set taken from another JP7 and installed them, but they aren't so fun in it. If anything, they sound dullish as if it were some kind of a Les Paul, even with the highs rolled off a bit. With the coils split, it sounds nowhere close to stratish-in-2-or-4 if you know what I mean.

So I changed the stock ESP-branded pots (Bourns? Alpha?) for CTS 500K A and B and the cap for a .022 Orange Drop. That didn't do much as I had hoped, but the tone pot had looked as if it had been opened (repaired?), so I wanted to get straight with it anyway.

Then I found on the DiMarzio site that both the CL and LF are asymmetrical as in it does matter what coil is heading to the neck. I tried every single position and chose one. It didn't change much as in adding much feasible HF but it definitely makes a big difference as how transients show on the screen

The guitar is wired NS / NP / B +N inner coils strat-like / BP /BS now using the schematics from the DiMarzio site . I have to use parallel quite a lot to lighten up the tone by a bit. You should see me playing solos clicking the 5-way in every second phrase LOL

So then I changed the tone pot for a no-load one, couldn't find a CTS so I had to install a Bourns 500K. That does very little difference and, I do use my tone knob and the no-load really makes its job when fully open, so that sucks

I wanted to try out a 1M tone pot but could only find a cheapo Chinese one so I bought one but didn't even bother installing it
My next move is probably trying out a .015 cap instead of the .022 I have now
One of the problems is I don't have a shop that carries good parts locally, and shipment may get more expensive than the parts when ordering elsewhere

The guy who does all the soldering for me (I'm bad at that and need someone else to blame too) swears there are no leaks o highs anywhere to the ground. He also says it could be the alder I have in the E-II (the JP was basswood). Like, alder can get really dark sometimes. I seriously doubt that, the two are pretty close to my ears but, with all the try and effort put into this guitar, I don't know.

For now, I blowed the dust off my MXR KFK-1 10-band EQ pedal and use it as a high boost to liven up my sound. With that I can easily get where I want

What may be happening there, and is there anything I'm overseeing?

 

[Tuned]

oh, I don't think that matters, just checking all the boxes - the CL/LF come direct installed in the body on the JP, and the E-II MR comes with a forward-side quite deep of a routing, pickups installed on the pickguard strat-like

 

[odibrom]

I didn't quite understand your needs regarding the pickups' tone. What are you after? More power, more compression, a more open tone?

Have you messed with the pickups' height? Some are very sensible, you may need to search for their sweet spot.

You could also try out the 1M pot for volume and with a treble bleed cap. May as well try it for the tone pot too. 1M pots will open the guitar's/pickups' tone considerably.

... and those may just not be the pickups for you...?

 

[Tuned]

I didn't quite understand your needs regarding the pickups' tone. What are you after? More power, more compression, a more open tone?

Have you messed with the pickups' height? Some are very sensible, you may need to search for their sweet spot.

You could also try out the 1M pot for volume and with a treble bleed cap. May as well try it for the tone pot too. 1M pots will open the guitar's/pickups' tone considerably.

... and those may just not be the pickups for you...?

Oh, if I wasn't clear enough about it: I absolutely loved the sound of this same CL/LF set in my EBMM JP7. I played it for like 4 years and if I eventually sold it, it wasn't not due to the sound. This E-II however, also a 24-fret bolt-on superstrat, but it is so dark and dull with the same set
The stock pups were the SD Nazgul/Sentient that I felt were kinda pretty straightfoward , too djenty. At least when compared.

What I want with this guitar is basically the petrucci-esque tones, but with more tonal variations than he uses .. I use it with a 5-way, series/parallel/strat mid-position sorta, thought of maybe installing a middle S in the future.
I plug it into a Kemper (and before I also had a Mesa Mark III Black Stripe) and have real many good commercial profiles of various amps.

Pickups height, thank you for mentioning. Yes, I started off the height recommended in the ESP Owner's Manual and then gradually adjusted the bass and treble sides of each pup by small increments.

1M pots, do you think the volume should be primary and tone secondary? I will have to order 2 instead of 1 then.
And yet I don't understand how this can be so different with me if I'm basically using everything that everyone would use in the same setting...

Treble bleed, I've been thinking about that too and googled a few variants to do that. But the radio /soldering guy explained that envolved filtering the low end and I wouldn't want that

 

[ExMachina]

Sounds like you want more treble based on your EQ. What settings on the EQ got you what you wanted? What material is the pickguard?

Try the 1m pot, try the treble bleed, or just turn the presence up on the amp.

It's not the wood.

 

[Lemonbaby]

Didn't read the question, but the answer is: Bareknuckle Aftermath.

 

[Tuned]

Sounds like you want more treble based on your EQ. What settings on the EQ got you what you wanted? What material is the pickguard?

Try the 1m pot, try the treble bleed, or just turn the presence up on the amp.

It's not the wood.

I do add presence on the Kemper
on the EQ, it is @ 2K and 4K the most, then a bit of 1K and 8K
The pickguard, I don't know what they are using for it, looks like a regular 3-way plastic

MR SEVEN | ESP GUITARS

トップアーティストに愛用されるエレクトリックギター＆ベースメーカーESP GUITARS JAPAN

espguitars.co.jp

if you're asking because you think it works like a metal pickup cover, I wouldn't think so. It does use a piece of adhesive aluminum foil underneath that could be capable of that, but it is onla as big to only cover the controls cavity. The cavity irself is shileded with a carbon paint
I will try the 1M pots, only I don't understand what is causing this and why I would need all thar. Treble bleed, I might
Thank you for your help!

 

[Tuned]

Didn't read the question, but the answer is: Bareknuckle Aftermath.

haha, a good one

 

[ExMachina]

I do add presence on the Kemper
on the EQ, it is @ 2K and 4K the most, then a bit of 1K and 8K
The pickguard, I don't know what they are using for it, looks like a regular 3-way plastic

MR SEVEN | ESP GUITARS

トップアーティストに愛用されるエレクトリックギター＆ベースメーカーESP GUITARS JAPAN

espguitars.co.jp

if you're asking because you think it works like a metal pickup cover, I wouldn't think so. It does use a piece of adhesive aluminum foil underneath that could be capable of that, but it is onla as big to only cover the controls cavity. The cavity irself is shileded with a carbon paint
I will try the 1M pots, only I don't understand what is causing this and why I would need all thar. Treble bleed, I might
Thank you for your help!

I asked about the pickguard because it can cause Eddy currents which would depress the frequencies just before your resonant peak. The DCR of the crunchlab is like 11k which is pretty low. DCR correlates pretty well with the frequency of the resonant peak (r squared of like 0.6 based on the SD spreadsheet). I'm guessing the CL peak is pretty high then, like 5kish and it sounds like you want more pick attack in that 2k range.

I prefer to compensate on the amp or with a pedal, but if you really want to do it at the pickup, you might need something different in there. Where the resonant peak is closer to those frequencies you're pushing with the EQ.

Regarding why you interpret a difference between the two guitars, did the string gauge change? Did the scale length change, is the bridge or nut vastly different?

 

[RevDrucifer]

No, Glen Fricker said none of this matters so you must be wrong.

 

[odibrom]

(...)

1M pots, do you think the volume should be primary and tone secondary? I will have to order 2 instead of 1 then. (...)

Treble bleed, I've been thinking about that too and googled a few variants to do that. But the radio /soldering guy explained that envolved filtering the low end and I wouldn't want that

If you're going with 1M pots, do start with the Volume first. Do consider a treble bleed. It is in fact a bass frequencies filter, however, it only works when dialing down the volume and will help you tame down them a bit as well. It doesn't work as a Bass Frequency EQ. There are several ways to make a treble bleed, I use the most simple one: a 1000pF or 1nF cap in the volume pot lugs, without additional resistance either in parallel or series. It works just fine, and there are several caps one can use, achieving obviously different results and feels

... am I to understand that the guy doing the soldering for you is not a guitar tech guy? Is he a radio repair man? Does he knows anything about guitar circuitry?

How's the ESP scale length, bridge (type and material) and neck/body joint compared to the EBMM? This has a bigger impact one tone differences between guitars than the body and neck woods alone. I'm assuming you're using the same set of strings (brand, model and gauges)...

 

[bostjan]

Sounds like the EQ pedal solved your problem. So this is theoretical talk?

Everything on the guitar makes a difference. People want to believe that it doesn't, because it will make them feel like they are enlightened and everyone else is dumb.

The scale length, nut, bridge, woods, pots, string brand, even the cable you use - it all makes small differences in tone. I also suspect that different specimens of the same model of pickup are sometimes different enough to make a perceptible difference.

But, ultimately, if you don't gel with a guitar, maybe you should try out some others and find a path to move on.

 

[Tuned]

I asked about the pickguard because it can cause Eddy currents which would depress the frequencies just before your resonant peak. The DCR of the crunchlab is like 11k which is pretty low. DCR correlates pretty well with the frequency of the resonant peak (r squared of like 0.6 based on the SD spreadsheet). I'm guessing the CL peak is pretty high then, like 5kish and it sounds like you want more pick attack in that 2k range.

I prefer to compensate on the amp or with a pedal, but if you really want to do it at the pickup, you might need something different in there. Where the resonant peak is closer to those frequencies you're pushing with the EQ.

Regarding why you interpret a difference between the two guitars, did the string gauge change? Did the scale length change, is the bridge or nut vastly different?

okso if I understand it right at least Eddie currents aren't relevant in my case, is this right?
Thanks for the interesting info, I reaaly meed to go deeper in undestanding the reasonant peak part. Is there a comprehensive piece you'd advise to read?

The string gauge is almost the same, same on the 6 strings and just a tad thicker on the 7th (lowest) string, just because of the strings that are available locally. As you undestand it isn't the 7th string that bothers me in the HF. However, I have ordered a sixpack of the original gauge and make on. The scale is the same. so is the neck construction. The bridge and nut are different, yes: an EBMM Modern Trem and plastic(?) compensated nut vs. an OFR7

 

[Tuned]

No, Glen Fricker said none of this matters so you must be wrong.

oh, do you mean the Spectre Studios Glen? Please let him know I'm using Kemper profiles with different speakers profiled, that might reconcliliate him a bit
That guy, jeez

 

[Tuned]

If you're going with 1M pots, do start with the Volume first. Do consider a treble bleed. It is in fact a bass frequencies filter, however, it only works when dialing down the volume and will help you tame down them a bit as well. It doesn't work as a Bass Frequency EQ. There are several ways to make a treble bleed, I use the most simple one: a 1000pF or 1nF cap in the volume pot lugs, without additional resistance either in parallel or series. It works just fine, and there are several caps one can use, achieving obviously different results and feels

... am I to understand that the guy doing the soldering for you is not a guitar tech guy? Is he a radio repair man? Does he knows anything about guitar circuitry?

How's the ESP scale length, bridge (type and material) and neck/body joint compared to the EBMM? This has a bigger impact one tone differences between guitars than the body and neck woods alone. I'm assuming you're using the same set of strings (brand, model and gauges)...

yes I do understand that about the treble bleed. However, I use the volume and tone knobs a lot. In fact, I installed strat type knobs instead of the knurled domes because they have contrasting numbers. to see where I'm currently at. Also, there's a reason in connection to this that I prefer CTS to Bourns: Bourns have a much lighter feel and I tend to turn them accidentaly evry now and then, and CTS have that resisting feel to them
Scale length, neck joint are the same. Bridge type different (EBMM Modern Trem vs OFR), same materials of both the bridge and toneblock. I tend to use the same strings model and gauge 10-56 but they haven't been available locally for a while so I had to use another brand, same material (I prefer SS) and the closest gauge of 10-59 where the 6 strings are the same gauge and only the 7th string is different

EDIT: Oh, I forgot, - the soldering guy. The [strange ] thing is - there's a great luthier/guitar tech that I work with but he refususes to do the electric/electronic part and the other one, vice versa. He crafts and repairs amps, pedals, guitars' guts, has a degree in music (he's a cello player) , but I always feel he is not quite 'the guitar tech'.

 

[Emperoff]

I read the whole thing and still don't know what this thread is about

 

[Tuned]

Sounds like the EQ pedal solved your problem. So this is theoretical talk?

Everything on the guitar makes a difference. People want to believe that it doesn't, because it will make them feel like they are enlightened and everyone else is dumb.

The scale length, nut, bridge, woods, pots, string brand, even the cable you use - it all makes small differences in tone. I also suspect that different specimens of the same model of pickup are sometimes different enough to make a perceptible difference.

But, ultimately, if you don't gel with a guitar, maybe you should try out some others and find a path to move on.

no, the question is quite practical. The EQ does solve the problem for now but it brings up audible noise as well. Introducing a noisegate - you know what it does to HF and the tone as a whole. I prefer not to use one when possible
The thing is, I do like the guitar. It is comfortable to play, although I would prefer a slightly rounder neck, has a good upper fret access although it is a bolt-on, has 24 frets and an OFR which, to my astonishment, proved to be not a very common combination o a 7-string

 

[Tuned]

I read the whole thing and still don't know what this thread is about

I feel your pain

 

[bostjan]

EDIT: Oh, I forgot, - the soldering guy. The [strange ] thing is - there's a great luthier/guitar tech that I work with but he refususes to do the electric/electronic part and the other one, vice versa. He crafts and repairs amps, pedals, guitars' guts, has a degree in music (he's a cello player) , but I always feel he is not quite 'the guitar tech'.

Wait, so what part of the pickup swap does the not-electronics guy do?!

no, the question is quite practical. The EQ does solve the problem for now but it brings up audible noise as well. Introducing a noisegate - you know what it does to HF and the tone as a whole. I prefer not to use one when possible
The thing is, I do like the guitar. It is comfortable to play, although I would prefer a slightly rounder neck, has a good upper fret access although it is a bolt-on, has 24 frets and an OFR which, to my astonishment, proved to be not a very common combination o a 7-string

If you need help/advice, I think this site is a great resource, but maybe first, we'd have to identify the question or problem in terms that can be addressed as directly as possible.

If you want just more brightness in your tone, there is a list of possible mods. But maybe the JP pickups are part of the reason you can't get there... If the issue is that you want guitar A to sound identical to guitar B, then I think it might be a bottomless errand, especially if you have any nostalgia for the EBMM. In that case, just get the EBMM back (or get another one) and hope that it sounds the same as you remember.

To make your tone brighter: set the tone knob to 10, pick closer to the bridge, use newer strings, adjust the highs and/or presence on your amp/sim upward. If that doesn't get you where you need to be, bypass your tone knob, replace your saddles with brighter-sounding ones, try a different pick, use thinner gauges or brighter branded strings, use a brighter amp/sim. If that still isn't enough, replace your pickups with Dimarzio EVO7's, replace your bridge with something brighter, try the Cool Picks Carbon Fiber Resin pick, get some GHS Boomer 0.008" strings, add an EQ, and deck your guitar out with stainless steel. If that still doesn't work, throw the guitar away, get a piece of slate chalkboard and some steel fingerpicks and just rake them across the surface of the slate. If that's still not bright enough, what I'd suggest next isn't going to be safe and involves staring directly into the sun.

 

[Emperoff]

If that still doesn't work, throw the guitar away, get a piece of slate chalkboard and some steel fingerpicks and just rake them across the surface of the slate. If that's still not bright enough, what I'd suggest next isn't going to be safe and involves staring directly into the sun.

You guys are on fire today