Gibson vs Heritage, Seriously?

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by spudmunkey, Mar 14, 2020.

  1. Wuuthrad

    Wuuthrad Well-Known Member

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    If you want to have a conversation about this, please feel free to answer my questions with answers, instead of questions.

    Otherwise what’s the point?
     
  2. Señor Voorhees

    Señor Voorhees SS.org Regular

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    This kind of implies that aesthetics are the only thing worth worrying about. Tons of companies make guitars that look similar to Gibson/Fender designs, but more often than not they have massive design differences. Different pickups, sustainer systems, trems of various types, bolt on, through necks, neck profiles, particular branded hardware, volutes, scarf joints, radius, fret material/size, price point, truss rods, etc. There's a difference between biting someone's design, making it look and function nearly identically, and filling in holes in the market with similar designs that function differently.

    As an example, I always wanted (and for a long time had the money for) a 7 string explorer. Gibson had one, but I didn't want a 24.75" scale or soap bar pickups. Schecter came along with the E-7 with passive/standard pups, a 26.5" scale, comfortable neck profile, and quality hardware. They didn't JUST take/modify the shape, they made the guitar functionally WAY more palatable to me. Instead of suing people left and right, they should maybe focus on making more diverse guitars... Or maybe just accept that people will always want a Gibson just because it's a Gibson and not worry about the shapes anymore. Like I said, I was in no danger of ever giving them money for that 7 string explorer, unless they made one with similar specs to the one Schecter gave me. Stopping brands like Schecter from producing them wouldn't have somehow made me magically change my mind because it's not just the shape that matters to me.

    I get WHY they're doing it, and they have the legal right to do it, but I think they should be focusing/worrying about other things. When people tell you "I bought/returned like 10 guitars from you guys and they came to me with stripped screws, misaligned holes, deadspots, etc" your reaction should not be "oh, dang, that's a shame... Don't worry, I'll stop these other guys from making guitars that look a little like ours, then you can buy ten more... Maybe ONE of them will be okay. What? Fix our QC? No way! We gotta stop these other guys from selling guitars that look a little like ours! If we stop to fix QC, who will send a C&D to Dean?"
     
  3. budda

    budda Guiterrorizer Contributor

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    I did.

    If you dont want to answer mine, that's ok.
     
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  4. Tuned

    Tuned SS.org Regular

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    as my friend once put it, Gibson wouldn't be in that much trouble if they just copied Navigator* instead of all this.











    ----
    a high-tier ESP-owned brand for the Japanese inner market particularly known for outstanding Gibson and Fender copies
     
  5. Wuuthrad

    Wuuthrad Well-Known Member

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    I dont know if this answers your questions, but there are (at least) 2 sides to every story:

    https://guitar.com/news/gibson-issues-formal-response-to-heritage-lawsuit/

    Looks as if Gibson isn’t suing them after all.

    Also interesting- Heritage is owned by a foreign investment company from Singapore I think? (I read this earlier today.)

    My main complaint with all the complaints :D about Guitar companies is, why not put the outrage to better use?

    I remember back in the day when we used to have to carry our guitars uphill both way to band practice, in the freezing rain, and we even shared joints when we got there.
    In all serious it wasn’t easy to get a guitar back in the day.


    Also the complaint of Gibson using the same designs and not innovating isn’t really true.

    I took a look at the Gibson Archive which lists 10 pages guitars released from 2015-2019. There are nearly 240 different guitars with a huge variety of specs!

    http://legacy.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Gibson-USA.aspx


    Maybe I’m reading into this too much? I like most guitar makers products, but I doubt my personal tastes are that relevant to this topic.

    That being said, I don’t think Gibson is as bad as people make them out to be. It seems that people without much experience are repeating what they heard online, which I don’t understand. If I have a problem with a product I go to the manufacturer I don’t complain publicly. Different strokes I guess.

    “It’s (not so good) to be King?” maybe...

    But who’s the real King of the guitar world?
    Fender? Kerry King?
     
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  6. Chokey Chicken

    Chokey Chicken mouth breather

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    I have too much free time, but I went through all of the explorers, since that's what Voorhees mentioned. Every single one is just about the same specs. 22 frets, 12 inch radius, Tom with stop tail, mahogany, etc. They do have different pickups occasionally, but no trems, luminlays, etc. Same guitars, different aesthetics.

    I personally don't think there's anything wrong with that since they clearly sell, and they might not if they started lumping on newer features. In the example of schecter, they have some with sustainers, some with Tom stop tails, some with trems, 7 string with extended scales and 24 frets.

    I second the notion that they should worry more about quality and less on aesthetics. This is coming from someone who owns, and loves, all of their main designs. (V, LP, SG, Ex, firebird.) When you get a good one, there's nothing like them and I feel that THAT is where their money lies... Not being the only ones to have a particular shape. They just need to churn out less turd. Then they won't waste so much on firewood guitars and won't be wasting money on dumb lawsuits.
     
  7. Bdtunn

    Bdtunn SS.org Regular

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  8. HeHasTheJazzHands

    HeHasTheJazzHands greg rulz ok

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    I can't find an article ATM, but I think Gamestop tried to pull the same shit, and local governments had to force them to shut down until Gamestop eventually caved in.

    EDIT: Was in Pennsylvania. Gov. Wolf forced the closure of Gamestops by immediately suspending their operating permit.

    https://www.dualshockers.com/gamestop-closed-pennsylvania-coronavirus/

    Wonder if Gibson will face the same backlash.
     
  9. budda

    budda Guiterrorizer Contributor

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    As per another forum - i believe it but want to see a second source.
     
  10. Demiurge

    Demiurge Intrepid Jackass

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    After the backlash they're working on a tribute model for the event, a COVID CORVUS CUSTOM. Available in cocoa, charcoal, cherryburst... and pelham blue.
     
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  11. ixlramp

    ixlramp SS.org Regular

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    Of course guitar design and manufacture is relevant to musicians. Even if a musician is not personally affected, good people often criticise and act against nasty company behaviour, for the sake of everyone and to create a better world. Your uncaring attitude is what generally allows nastiness to prosper in the world.
    'Reasonably protecting yourself against copies' is not what people are complaining about. You are misrepresenting Gibson's recent behaviours as being reasonable.

    I am not judging this latest news yet as both sides of the story seem convincing.
     
    HeHasTheJazzHands likes this.
  12. Wuuthrad

    Wuuthrad Well-Known Member

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    I never said it isn’t. I was commenting on people’s judgement of legal issues they know nothing about.

    Are you seriously suggesting that maybe a few hundred people posting slander online are creating a better world?

    I think there’s a lot more important things to worry about especially right now, but if making personal attacks against me makes you feel better- congratulations! Dark times right now!


    That’s a pretty BS statement right there- just fyi- you are jumping to conclusions and have no idea what you’re talking about!

    Discuss ideas not people.

    Please don’t bother responding to my questions. Just think about them. I won’t be revisiting this subject anymore as it’s a waste of my time.

    Stay well!
     
  13. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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  14. Ataraxia2320

    Ataraxia2320 SS.org Regular

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    I dont even have skin in the game, but this am I alone in thinking that this the laziest cop out reply ever?
     
  15. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    It's only purpose is to troll someone, insinuating that they are too old to understand. That's it. As a 40 year-old, I'm barely even Gen X (the youngest year of that window...the next year is Gen Y), yet I've been "boomer"ed a couple times. :lol:
     
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  16. fps

    fps Kit

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    It's a truly wretched response. A copy of a copy of something that was lame in the first place.
     
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  17. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    To be clear, the original post is a lawsuit from HERITAGE. It was a preemptive-strike against Gibson, who they felt was going to come after them based on recent. As far as what was even said by Heritage, it was in response to Gibson's general behavior, not a specific legal action against Heritage.
     
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  18. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Heritage wants to expand and do it all on their terms, which is pretty much impossible as long as the original agreement stands.

    It's a gamble, but the payoffs can be huge. Folks love Gibson guitars, but many (not majority) don't like the baggage, so if Heritage can operate without worrying about impending litigation they'll make a killing.
     
  19. Riffage

    Riffage SS.org Regular

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    Sounds like Gibsons management needs some tough love.
     
  20. fps

    fps Kit

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    Yeesh.... a better world through guitar forums? A touch naive. Especially given you and we have no ideas about the ins and outs of this case, only a prejudice against Gibson based on things they've done in the past.
     
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