George Floyd...

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by BlackSG91, May 28, 2020.

  1. Adieu

    Adieu SS.org Regular

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    America needs to make a show of EXECUTING cops who cross the line, Chinese-style. Rinse and repeat until message received loud and clear.
     
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  2. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    Good luck getting executed without trying to pass a fake $20 bill.
     
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  3. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Eh, it's as easy as sleeping in your own home, or playing video games in your living room.
     
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  4. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    Sounds like we need a people-who-chill-around union.
     
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  5. Chokey Chicken

    Chokey Chicken mouth breather

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    Because the laws are/were so shitty, the cops didn't break laws. It doesn't make what happened morally right, and whoever authorized any of it needs to be beaten, but you can't criminally charge someone of something when they didn't break any laws. We, as rational human beings, know that what happened is wrong and should be criminal, but by written law it wasn't.

    Which is why we need absolute reform in the police department as a whole. Someone thought it would make sense to say "kick down a door at 3am, what could go wrong?" Tons of ill informed decisions and stupid policies were used, but it was by the (poorly written) book, aside from the firing on an unseen target. We need smarter, more mentally fit, people on the police force, not Billy Bum-Fuck who barely graduated high school with an itchy trigger finger and anger issues.

    As an aside, I find it interesting that people, in defense of the police, want to make a big deal about guy being a drug dealer or whatever... Okay? Not ONE person thought that a drug dealer might have a gun and open fire if a bunch of plain clothes guys kicked the door down at 3am? That was their only option? Seems like that lends even more credence to criminally negligent homicide or manslaughter. Or at least SOMETHING against whoever authorized this shit show no-knock move. This was not an unforseen outcome unless you're missing pieces of your brain.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
  6. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    People keep saying that the officers did not break the law.

    https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html - they were required by law to knock and announce, despite confusion about the orders.

    It is also illegal for any person, officer or not, to "spray and pray," meaning that, in order to lawfully discharge a firearm in self-defense, Kentucky law requires you to be able to see the person who is the actual threat and aim directly at them.

    These are not just procedural laws, they are very serious. If someone not in uniform behaved at all the same way in the state of Kentucky, that person would be locked away forever. Killing a person in self defense is only justifiable if self defense can be justified, and in this case, it is not. Killing a person in "not self defense" is unjustifiable homicide, i.e. murder.
     
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  7. Chokey Chicken

    Chokey Chicken mouth breather

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    I should probably make myself more clear. I think it's definitely possible, even likely, that laws were broken. I just think it's hard to prove in court and if all procedures were followed (I don't think they announced, which would then nullify everything and put them 100% legally at fault, but as I say later, good luck proving they didn't.)

    The guy who fired blindly was the only one charged. According to that article, and Walker himself, they did knock. I can't speak to if they announced. They may or may not have. (good luck proving they didn't. Body cameras when please? ) Up until just now I thought it WAS a no knock warrant, but apparently they switched it to a knock and announce. The one guy who is alive that was there said they knocked, so police can claim they announced (even if they didn't) and it's a matter of he said she said.

    Again, police are given authority to do certain things so it's pointless saying "anyone else." The police aren't just "anyone else", they're given authority. (which is why we really need to be more selective of Who we give that authority to.) Civilians will never be given the authority to enter someone's home forcibly, the police were. When given a warrant, no knock or otherwise, they WILL enter the property if you don't respond, and it's technically legal. They, because of shitty laws and terrible judgement, legally entered the property. Walker, reasonably, opened fire. The police returned fire, which makes sense if it weren't for the shitty negligent decision to not wait for the fucking morning or something.

    Besides the absolutely ridiculous decision to make a move on a warrant at 1am, the most puzzling thing for me is that the police fired 20 bullets and as far as I can see the only injuries were to the police officer and Breonna. What kind of incompetence must you show to fire that many times, hit a non-target 5 times, and your target (the one with the gun) wasn't hit at all?

    Basically if it went how the police say it did, then the only law technically broken was the blind fire and they charged him for that. There's no way to prove it happened otherwise, especially when one of the only people actually there corroborated part of the police's story, contradicting what others are trying to say.

    I think they knocked, then just kicked the door in expecting to do the whole "policegetdownsearchwarrant" shit, (which would be out of line and definitely making the entry illegal.) but got shot at first. I personally think the police were wrong, and I think they deserve manslaughter charges. But law isn't enforced because of feelings. (per se.)

    Things have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt. Literally the only thing that would make this an illegal act is if they didn't announce. And reasonable doubt is as easy as saying "the neighbor who was out for a smoke heard no knock and no announcement. Walker said they knocked, so that neighbors statement means nothing. Is it possible that they were knocking for a while before walker heard it? Could they have been announcing before Walker got out of bed and he just didn't hear it?"

    We have no way of knowing, no matter how strongly we feel, and it's fucking frustrating because if they just had body cams, these fucking picks wouldn't stand a chance. And this is all beside the fact that they logically (not legally) shouldn't be executing such a shitty warrant so late at night. At the very least, if I were one of the involved officers, I wouldn't be able sleep at night knowing that my moronic actions, legally or not, took a life. Maybe I'm a snitch, but I wouldn't think twice about ratting myself or anyone else out if I knew a wrong this terrible stemmed from my or their actions. Justified by law or not, I would feel like dirt... NOT trying to defend my shitty actions/name.

    But then again, I'm not a horrible person, which I whole heartedly believe the involved officers are. I don't know how you can kill someone innocent, justified or not, and not feel shitty about it and worry more about your job and how you did the "legal and right thing" or whatever BS they said.
     
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  8. Adieu

    Adieu SS.org Regular

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    Uhm, you seem to be confused as to how guns work.

    Actually, 20 shots and 5 hits is bewilderingly accurate shooting.

    They just shot the wrong person. Very effectively. And when they shouldn't have been shooting anyone at all.

    And, on a side note, whatever the hell cops and or her boyfriend were or were not doing to each other, Taylor was a BYSTANDER. Shooting a bystander is always a fucking crime.

    It SHOULD have been up to the courts to decide whether this is anything from accidental manslaughter to premeditated murder (arguing that cops created a violent showdown situation intentionally out of nothing in hopes of killing someone --- not saying this is true or not, just an option).... but shooting an unarmed person multiple times and leaving them to die is always a crime.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
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  9. possumkiller

    possumkiller Square Dance Caller

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    Unless you're a cop. Where have you been?
     
  10. Adieu

    Adieu SS.org Regular

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    I'm Russian

    Back home, only IMPORTANT people get protected from prosecution. Nobody gives two fucks about some grunt cop, and would actually probably gleefully hang him out to dry and make a show of it because such things play out well in the press... and hey, it's a just a fucking cop so lowly he still runs around with a gun kicking doors instead of riding desk and making bank.... it's the perfect sacrificial pawn to satisfy the masses.

    They'd seriously doubt even his mama cares about what happens to him.
     
  11. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Mother of the year, Wendy Rittenhouse, is hopping on the RWNJ circuit.

    Completely predictable.
     
  12. Randy

    Randy ✝✝✝ Super Moderator

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    Yeah, I saw her taking selfies with Michelle Malkin while her son dodges extradition 20 miles away. :rolleyes:
     
  13. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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    I'm not trying to argue here or take a side, but this statement feels off to me. Let's make one assumption: BT's boyfriend did shoot first to defend their home.

    In the other case, Kyle Rittenhouse shot someone with a record and everyone argued (rightfully) that the record of the victim shouldn't matter because it was independent of the events that led up to the incident. So how is a cop with 50 complaints any different if he is in a situation that he has to return fire? Those 50 prior complaints don't mean anything if he has someone shooting a gun at him.

    I will completely agree that cops with that many negative complaints should be out of a job or stuck doing paperwork for eternity. That makes the department and leadership liable to me. But I fail to see what a prior complaint list has to do with someone's behavior at the time of the incident.
     
  14. Adieu

    Adieu SS.org Regular

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    Because that's like an article about an Uber driver mentioning his 2.1* rating


    ....except Uber, unlike the po-po, at least pretends to have standards.
     
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  15. broj15

    broj15 SS.org Regular

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    You must not have read the entirety of my comment. Like I already said, cops should be held to a higher standard then that of the average US citizen because we "trust them" to have discretion (or a complete lack there of) to use deadly force to enforce the law. So yes, when you put on the badge, strap on the vest and gun, and willingly accept that responsibility then you are immediately on the hook for your previous actions. If they wanna change that then they need to either A) rethink the position of law enforcement in modern society or B) raise the fucking bar and actually train these people to handle thier shit in the stressful situations they'll encounter.
    And the whole Kyle Rittenhouse situation is a total false equivalency, as is bringing up the previous record of George Floyd or anyone killed by law enforcement. Kyle, nor any LEO has the right to PASS JUDGEMENT on a person. That's not the job of some private citizen cosplaying as militia man or of law ENFORCEMENT officers. That responsibility is to be left to the judges, prosecutors, and above all else a jury of thier peers.

    Edit: this isn't a personal dig against you, but I find it funny that whenever someone says "not trying to argue here, but..." It's almost always followed up with a counterpoint which is, at best, a friendly debate and at worse an argument.
     
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  16. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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    No personal dig taken. Your point makes sense, I just don't see how it is relevant in a life threatening situation. Maybe I haven't been in enough (or any) situations where someone is shooting at me to know how anyone should behave, law enforcement officer or not. Maybe that goes to your point of more training?
     
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  17. broj15

    broj15 SS.org Regular

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    Once again, sorry if my statements seem a bit harsh, but thanks for being chill.
    I do think that more training is definitely one of many solutions to the problems with law enforcement as a whole in this country. I never been actually shot at, but I have been in situations where I've been confronted by someone brandishing a fire arm, and had I been armed at the time I can't definitively say what I would've done, and Its not something I like to think about.
    At the same time though, considering the location of Breonna Taylor's apartment, had her bf not known exactly who it was kicking in the door (entirely possible considering the warrant was served at night and it's presumed that they were both asleep) his reaction of opening fire on what he probably thought was someone (not law enforcement) running up on his home for drugs, money, possessions, etc. Is totally valid, bit also speaks to a much deeper issue. And that issue brings me onto another point: while I don't think that completely abolishing law enforcement is the ultimate solution, I do think that most police departments are grossly over funded and that those funds could be put towards other things such as social workers trained in conflict resolution & de-escalation, community support to help curb/eliminate poverty & homelessness, and community outreach (and not the bs pr friendly white cops shooting hoops with black kids in the hood community outreach).
    Maybe if we'd been doing things like that instead of militarizing the police we wouldn't have communities where Breonna Taylor's BF's first reaction is to open fire when he hears a group of footsteps coming down the hallway.

    Edit: I don't really enjoy his music anymore but lately I've been reminded about the Johnny Hobo line where he says "I don't wanna kill a cop. What I want are neighborhoods where they don't have to get called when the shit goes down". Idealistic as that may be, I feel like striving towards a society like that will ultimately lead to progress.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  18. Ralyks

    Ralyks The One Who Knocks Contributor

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  19. cip 123

    cip 123 Vendor

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    I see the point about BT's boyfriend firing first a lot as a counterpoint to justify the officers shooting. But as an outsider it perplexes me since Americans seem to go on and on (it dominates even our news cycles when there is a mass shooting) about the need for guns as defence and safety. Like if someone breaks in you have the legal right to shoot them don't you? isn't that how it works?

    Maybe I missed some context but it's weird when outsiders here "We need guns for protection" But when they're used for that purpose someone ends up in jail, and another dead.
     
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  20. StevenC

    StevenC Javier Strat 8 2022

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    Not in all states. Some you're only allowed to use deadly force in response to to it.

    And people only argue for that law when it's a white person's house.
     
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