George Floyd...

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by BlackSG91, May 28, 2020.

  1. Adieu

    Adieu SS.org Regular

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    Of course it is

    My dumbass, wino Russian uncle has been arrested for drunkenly assaulting the police at least 3 times, including once in my company

    That one time he got kicked OUT of a holding cell after punching an officer (WHILE already detained). Senior officer said "get that shithead out of here".... and off he went. I got fined $5 USD for drunk in public though.

    The other two times, he went before a judge. $8 fine once, case dismissed the other time. In which case he was drunk on the subway, SAW a cop, and proceeded to run up an kick him in the behind "because cops pissed him off" (to which he plead GUILTY)

    Nope nobody shot him or roughed him up
     
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  2. Adieu

    Adieu SS.org Regular

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    Cops can't shoot you in Russia.

    One rookie famously made the newspapers after he was put ON TRIAL for shooting a bloodied, butt-naked man who charged at him brandishing a severed penis. Yes, you read that right. Severed penis. Outdoors. In the snow. At night.

    Because he panicked and didn't fire a warning shot or otherwise try to resolve (?) this non-lethally... apparently there is a PROCEDURE to be followed for this kind of thing.
     
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  3. Adieu

    Adieu SS.org Regular

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    I once dated a Russian cop. Paper pusher, but still had an issued weapon... always kept it in the gun safe at the office and carried pepper spray and a tazer.

    Because she lived in a rough shit neighborhood and felt she'd quickly end up getting fired for brandishing it or jailed for using it in self defense if she had it.
     
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  4. possumkiller

    possumkiller Square Dance Caller

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    Really? WTF? I got drunk at a July 4 BBQ at my dad's house and walked down the street to my aunt's house. She was driving home drunk from the same party and ran me over in her driveway. She called the ambulance and the cops showed up. Never even bothered to check her for alcohol but followed me to the hospital because I was uncooperative (probably from being black out drunk and hit by a car and not wanting to go to the hospital because I couldn't fucking afford it) and loud. I woke up in a cell the next morning with four counts of felony battery on law enforcement looking at a possible 20 years in prison. I was thankful to get away with just one count of felony battery and three years of probation and a felony record that ruined my life and caused me to never find any kind of meaningful employment again. The battery was brushing an officer's ass with my fingers as I was moving in the bed, hitting a nurse on the cheek with the heart monitor wire from my fingertip as I made a hand gesture pointing across the room, putting my arm around a nurse's neck to help pull myself up (the police said I tried to choke her to death, the nurses said otherwise but not in court of course), and some other nonsense that I don't even remember. It's been over ten years ago now and I still can't get past the background check phase of any decent job opportunity. One of the other reasons I jumped at the chance to move to Poland.


    The american justice and corrections system is just another capitalist money making scheme. They wait to catch you or entrap you just to get you into processing. Once you are into the process, they are going to get their money. You are either wealthy enough to pay them off and get off with nothing but money lost, or you are going to spend money on attorneys and court fees and processing fees and all kinds of other bullshit fees, or you are going to go to prison and your stay will be paid by the tax payers into the system. Or they just get the pure fun and joy of killing you.

    America is a shithole country that used to put up a nice facade. It's that fine ass girl in high school that everyone wants to be with and always gets her way and is the most popular and bosses everyone around but she's actually dead inside because when she goes home she gets beaten and abused and raped by her daddy and brothers and uncles and cousins.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
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  5. Adieu

    Adieu SS.org Regular

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    Everywhere is fucked up in its own way

    Russian cops tend to use their badges for personal gain. But they'll also pick their battles because they have "better" things to do than enjoy screwing with little people to improve their mood.

    If you're a proper criminal, they'll put you away to keep up the facade of doing their jobs well. If you're a little shit with some weed or some property damage, they'll make a modest profit off not charging you and move on. Minor "fines" like public urination or something? "Collected" on sight, off the books, from your pocket into theirs. If you're drunk and disorderly, they may or may not relieve you of something valuable or a couple big bills in your posession, and send you on your merry way once you sober up to move on to something more interesting.

    The hassle of charging some drunk who took a swing at one of em... does not figure into it.

    Besides, that's probably 15 nights in a cell with community service during the day if they DO get it to stick. Attempted assault with no grevious harm isn't gonna get a felony conviction there. They'd have to fake serious injury and go through the hassle of collecting medical evidence even to file it as a felony, and then there's the matter of getting it to stick.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
  6. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    There's almost no where on earth other then literal failed states where the police are also the military where the police as much power and fire power as the USA.

    my business partner routinely honks at cop cars and yells at the police here.
     
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  7. Adieu

    Adieu SS.org Regular

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    Seriously

    Everybody in America tiptoes around cops like they got an expired visa, an eightball of coke, and a bunch of kiddie pron on their person...at the same time.

    If people acted that nervous around cops in other countries, THAT would be seen as suspicious as hell behavior.
     
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  8. Chokey Chicken

    Chokey Chicken mouth breather

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    To be fair, most countries also don't have as many red-necks or average civilians who, if so inclined, are also armed like the military.

    A quick Google shows that there are about 120.5 guns per hundred people in the states. If you take the guns away from the police, it would be a different kind of not pretty.

    I'm short, American culture is kinda gross. One problem breeds another, breeds another.

    And that's another example, Adieu. We tip-toe around cops because they ARE overzealous. That tip toeing IS seen as suspicious so you get targeted. A problem leading to another problem. And we're now at the point where people are now so scared, after tip toeing fails they think their going to die so they run or fight. As a result, people do die, frequently unjustified in any moral way. A lot of non violent offenders getting killed or hurt.

    We need some hefty police reform sooner rather than later.
     
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  9. nightflameauto

    nightflameauto SS.org Regular

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    That's the makings of the best Dethklok song ever.

    No-knock warrants are bullshit to begin with, but no-knock warrants served by plain-clothes so even if the person inside SEES the perpetrators they won't know they're cops, are several orders of magnitude beyond bullshit.
     
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  10. Randy

    Randy ✝✝✝ Super Moderator

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    It's also dangerous AF. Who would want to charge into someone's house unannounced and unarmored? It's a stupid policy.
     
  11. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Growing up in Detroit in the 1980's, I've personally known two people shot and killed by the police. Neither of them would have ever hurt anyone, I believe wholeheartedly. Granted that Detroit is a piss poor representation of urban USA, it does seem like there is a non-negligible chance of being killed by the police in just about any US city, over some misunderstanding or whatever.

    I don't think this is getting any more likely to happen; I think it's all just better visibility. But the problem is that the public has no attention span for this sort of thing. Does anybody even still remember Philando Castile? All the dude did was tell the cop calmly that he had a permit for a concealed weapon and the cop shot him a bunch of times in front of his family and there were no criminal repercussions. And that was just what, two years ago? If a civilian had done that to another civilian, it would have been second degree murder and 20+ years.

    Maybe the cops are not the most horrible people, but, I tell you what. You can argue with me about this if you want, but these are not the brightest and best people in the country who are shooting innocent people (or choking them or braining them with flashlights or whatever). Either way, the problem is in the system itself, though. Better screening and better training are necessary, but there also need to be palpable consequences for criminal negligence. Even if the cops are trained that they have to wear a body camera and taught not to get trigger happy, they still will do it at an unacceptable rate as long as they don't have the deep-rooted perception that those behaviours will have serious consequences for them personally. Also, what the hell is up with this crap where the body cameras are intentionally muted for 2 minutes?

    The problems in the system are not going to get fixed over-night, but, as long as we are backpedalling and not making progress toward the right direction, we are at risk of an uprising. You arm Americans, you arm the police, then you have the police start slaughtering Americans with disregard for any consequences and an executive branch of government who is cool with that. There are only two ways that develops and plays out. Not condoning either of those, I'm just making an observation that it only gets uglier until some cooler heads start to prevail.
     
  12. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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    It is important for people to distinguish criminal vs civil law. Criminal law means the AG prosecutes someone on behalf of the people (and the victims usually don't get to decide anything other than whether or not they will cooperate and be a witness). In this case, the cops were not criminally charged because they didn't break a law.

    Civil law, on the other hand, is the family prosecuting the cops (as individuals or a government entity). Considering they chose to settle for $12 million, they had a case and chose to end the situation quickly. So saying the cops got away with it legally is not true. The department had to settle a civil case.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
  13. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    I mean, it is against criminal law to murder someone, so I am unclear on what your point is.
     
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  14. Ralyks

    Ralyks The One Who Knocks Contributor

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    Also, that 12 million came from the taxpayers
     
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  15. fantom

    fantom Misses his 6 strings

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    From the cop's perspective, they were returning fire. That isn't murder. Maybe homicide, but honestly it wasn't even a homicide. At best it was manslaughter if they overreacted.

    You keep saying that... So the taxpayers have incentives to go to their city council meetings, vote for good candidates, run for office, and change the laws, which they did. Would you prefer the family was not paid or that the money came out of thin air?! What do you think the city could do here beside pay damages and revoke no-knock warrants? It seems like they are trying to make things right and prevent similar occurrences in the future.
     
  16. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Ok, I suppose I'm not even 100% clear on which case we are talking about. Is it Breonna Taylor?

    Thought experiment. Say my someone took my tractor. Say I assume my neighbour did it. Say I kick in their door to see if they have it. Say that there is exchange of gunfire when I do so. Say that a sleeping girlfriend is over at the neighbour's house and is shot by me in the confusion, as I was trying to kill someone else in the household. Since there was intent on my part, in this scenario, to do fatal harm to someone, a US court would most likely decide on a second degree murder charge, or some qualified version of second degree murder.

    According to written law, the cops would face the same scrutiny and culpability. I understand that according to case law, this is not so, but that's another discussion.

    Also, dude, manslaughter is a criminal act. No one anywhere with any knowledge of law is going to say otherwise. And furthermore, homicide is the killing of a human. "t wasn't even a homicide" is incorrect.

    So, is your point that the cops involved in the Breonna Taylor killing did not break any criminal law, or just that, from the broader perspective, cops don't ever break criminal law when they kill people?
     
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  17. Ralyks

    Ralyks The One Who Knocks Contributor

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    Umm I only said it that one time.
     
  18. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    The city has over a billion dollar budget, that $12 million is a drop in a bucket. It's not going to really force any change, at least from financial pressure.

    Heck, Louisville runs at a deficit over three times that annually and that doesn't push folks to enact much change year over year.

    They'll just short-change an essential service like transit or DOT or DPW.

    The funds should really come directly from the department and FOP. I guarantee that this shit wouldn't happen as much if the dues went up every time there was a settlement.
     
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  19. Randy

    Randy ✝✝✝ Super Moderator

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    Policeman's unions are great at 'protecting officers' when it comes to blocking release of disciplinary records but they'll let their guys get sent into someone's fucking apartment unannounced without body armor. Blue Union Dues Matter > Blue Lives Matter apparently
     
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  20. broj15

    broj15 SS.org Regular

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    I think what it all boils down to is a lack of transparency within the investigation and a lack of accountability for law enforcement as a whole.
    We "trust" law enforcement officers to keep the peace, enforce the law, and walk the streets with a lethal weapon and the training to "effectively" use it if the situation (apparently) warrants it. I feel like that means that law enforcement officers, and the judicial system as a whole should be held to a higher standard than your average American citizen. But instead things get covered up, let slide, glossed over, whatever you wanna call it. Either way no one gets any more than a slap on the wrist. One of the officers involved in the shooting of Breonna Taylor has what? 50+ formal complaints on his file? Idk about y'all but if I had even half as many complaints against me at my job I wouldn't have a job anymore. So when it's a police officer taking the life of an unarmed citizen due to poor training, bad judgement, shear incompetence, or whatever then why are the consequences not nearly as harsh as they would be for a private citizen.
     
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