Game of Thrones

[wankerness]

Uhm, no.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/in_the_books

Took me 10 seconds to Google it.

Yeah, it's in the public-edited wiktionary where it links to three random no-name newspaper articles where the authors used it wrong, and nowhere else, except a site where it attempts to explain the etymology of why the expression is ON THE BOOKS instead of IN. Basically it's like "Could care less" except only a very tiny number of people do it wrong and thus it doesn't have thousands of examples of people trying to explain why it's right

Coincidentally, most of the first page of results for "in the books" goes to game of thrones show wiki pages where there's a sub-section about each character/place called "in the books"

 

[bostjan]

Let's take this instance of where one of my favourite threads was derailed as an opportunity to discuss how threads have been getting derailed around here a lot lately.

Examples: A. Let's talk about an awesome amp I have. B. No, let's talk about how djent sucks and Mesa > boutique amps.
A. Let's talk about a crazy person who shot up a nightclub. B. Gun control debate: go.
A. Let's talk about Game of Thrones. B. No, let's talk about how threads keep getting derailed around here lately...oh wait, ....!

 

[extendedsolo]

Let's take this instance of where one of my favourite threads was derailed as an opportunity to discuss how threads have been getting derailed around here a lot lately.

Examples: A. Let's talk about an awesome amp I have. B. No, let's talk about how djent sucks and Mesa > boutique amps.
A. Let's talk about a crazy person who shot up a nightclub. B. Gun control debate: go.
A. Let's talk about Game of Thrones. B. No, let's talk about how threads keep getting derailed around here lately...oh wait, ....!

All of this just to avoid talking about the moon landing being fake?

 

[SD83]

Now that we're talking about books being in the books, while there are many books read within other books, I don't think I've ever seen any show or movie that has scenes where actors play actors reenact a scene those actors played. A play within a play.
At this point in the series, I have to say I don't see any point in the White Walkers existing in it, other than to give Lady Mormont a reason to join Jon Snow. Besides Davos & Jon, no one seems to be even remotely concerned about them, half of Westeros lies in ruins, most armies have probably been severely decimated since not all battles were so disappointing as the ones on screen. Wtf was it with the battle for Riverrun? So Edmure could have just walked there at any point, say "OK guys, surrender, or they will murder my child that I have never seen that will one day be heir to Riverrun which he will not be because we hand it over right now." and everyone besides Blackfish says "OK, you were Lord of Riverrun, but now the Iron Throne handed it over to Walder Frey and stripped you of all your titles, so you're not officially Lord of Riverrun, but since you're Lord of Riverrun, we surrender so you can hand it over to the Lord of Riverrun, which is not you and will probably never be a Tully anymore..." That just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[big_aug]

We're not saying it doesn't exist, we're just saying it's terribly uncommon in the areas that some of us live in so it SOUNDS fake

Well, the guy basically said we made it up by butchering something else and we aren't saying it correctly. That's false. I don't really care and wasn't even going to respond until multiple people discussed it.

"In the books" is a pretty common phrase to mean something is finished, completed, etc. When I thought about it, I concluded it probably came to be as a result of history being written in text books or something like that. Who knows? I only said it because I i was saying a book was in the books.

Anyway looking forward to Sunday.

 

[big_aug]

Yeah, it's in the public-edited wiktionary where it links to three random no-name newspaper articles where the authors used it wrong, and nowhere else, except a site where it attempts to explain the etymology of why the expression is ON THE BOOKS instead of IN. Basically it's like "Could care less" except only a very tiny number of people do it wrong and thus it doesn't have thousands of examples of people trying to explain why it's right

Coincidentally, most of the first page of results for "in the books" goes to game of thrones show wiki pages where there's a sub-section about each character/place called "in the books"

So Urban Dictionary, which is the exact same thing, is what you would want but this other less than reliable/accurate source is not good enough?

 

[wankerness]

So Urban Dictionary, which is the exact same thing, is what you would want but this other less than reliable/accurate source is not good enough?

No, hence the use of the word "even" in that sentence. I'm done with this.

 

[extendedsolo]

Now that we're talking about books being in the books, while there are many books read within other books, I don't think I've ever seen any show or movie that has scenes where actors play actors reenact a scene those actors played. A play within a play.
At this point in the series, I have to say I don't see any point in the White Walkers existing in it, other than to give Lady Mormont a reason to join Jon Snow. Besides Davos & Jon, no one seems to be even remotely concerned about them, half of Westeros lies in ruins, most armies have probably been severely decimated since not all battles were so disappointing as the ones on screen. Wtf was it with the battle for Riverrun? So Edmure could have just walked there at any point, say "OK guys, surrender, or they will murder my child that I have never seen that will one day be heir to Riverrun which he will not be because we hand it over right now." and everyone besides Blackfish says "OK, you were Lord of Riverrun, but now the Iron Throne handed it over to Walder Frey and stripped you of all your titles, so you're not officially Lord of Riverrun, but since you're Lord of Riverrun, we surrender so you can hand it over to the Lord of Riverrun, which is not you and will probably never be a Tully anymore..." That just doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm framing this.


Also, LOL at anyone who quotes urban dictionary as a source instead of, ya know, AN ACTUAL BOOK.

 

[bostjan]

All of this just to avoid talking about the moon landing being fake?

It's a government conspiracy. This site is actually entirely fake just to get people to buy more Ibanez, which will distract them from the moon landing.

Now that we're talking about books being in the books, while there are many books read within other books, I don't think I've ever seen any show or movie that has scenes where actors play actors reenact a scene those actors played. A play within a play.
At this point in the series, I have to say I don't see any point in the White Walkers existing in it, other than to give Lady Mormont a reason to join Jon Snow. Besides Davos & Jon, no one seems to be even remotely concerned about them, half of Westeros lies in ruins, most armies have probably been severely decimated since not all battles were so disappointing as the ones on screen. Wtf was it with the battle for Riverrun? So Edmure could have just walked there at any point, say "OK guys, surrender, or they will murder my child that I have never seen that will one day be heir to Riverrun which he will not be because we hand it over right now." and everyone besides Blackfish says "OK, you were Lord of Riverrun, but now the Iron Throne handed it over to Walder Frey and stripped you of all your titles, so you're not officially Lord of Riverrun, but since you're Lord of Riverrun, we surrender so you can hand it over to the Lord of Riverrun, which is not you and will probably never be a Tully anymore..." That just doesn't make any sense to me.

I've seen it before. Supernatural has done tons of weird stuff with that concept, in addition to turning it around the other way where, in one episode, the characters from the show were transported to an alternate dimension where they were characters from a show and they ran into (themselves) the actors who played them on the show.

I think the Riverrun thing was more along the lines of:

Blackfish was outnumbered and outclassed by the Lannister/Frey army, but wanted to stand his ground, because it was his home and he would rather die than give up his noble title. His men, on the other hand, had the choice to fight for the losing side or surrender to the winning side, and likely didn't personally care either way. Keep in mind that the war of five kings was pretty much over, all five kings were dead, and there wasn't really much left for which to fight, except the Blackfish's title, which would be tied to Edmure's title, since he was the heir, and yet had no interest in the title. It might be a little confusing, but it makes sense to me in many ways. Most soldiers show up to fight for a war eager for glory and willing to stand for principle. After fighting for some time, seeing a lot of death and destruction on both sides, and getting tired of the battle, their attitudes change.

-------------------

As far as the figure of speech, I had never heard it before, but there are a lot of figures of speech I hear for the first time, almost daily.

Some of my all-time favourites:

5. "Snug as a bug in a rug"
4. "He looks like he was slapped in the face with a bag of nickels."
3. "I'll slap the taste right out of your mouth."
2. "She's got more lipstick on than a chicken's ass in pokeberry time."
1. "Slicker than pig snot on a radiator."

 

[big_aug]

Yea, it was pretty clear that the blackfish wanted to fight and die. Edmure presented the other option and they took it. The fact he was the lord of Riverrun just made it easy for them.

 

[SD83]

I get that they prefered life over a pointless death (I have a hard time understanding the Blackfishs "I'd prefer a pointless death over a purpose in life" attitude), it just seems to render the entire siege-plot pointless if they could have just sent Edmure in in the first place (unless the only purpose of that plot was to show how great Jaime suddenly is at manipulating and how the Freys are idiots). I'm no expert on medieval warfare, but I'd guess a siege is rather expensive...

 

[big_aug]

I get that they prefered life over a pointless death (I have a hard time understanding the Blackfishs "I'd prefer a pointless death over a purpose in life" attitude), it just seems to render the entire siege-plot pointless if they could have just sent Edmure in in the first place (unless the only purpose of that plot was to show how great Jaime suddenly is at manipulating and how the Freys are idiots). I'm no expert on medieval warfare, but I'd guess a siege is rather expensive...

Jaime had to convince Edmure to do it. That took place in the tent. Basically he was going to kill Edmure's family at the least. Other things may have been discussed. Jaime basically says you can get them to surrender and you all leave alive, or they can all die along with you, your wife and child you've never met.

It doesn't help that Edmure was a captive for such a long time. He'd probably have done or said anything to be freed.

The Freys being idiots was part of it. That's why Jaime punched him in the face. They threatened to kill Edmure which was stupid. Jaimie arrived and ended it all using shadier tactics.

 

[wankerness]

Now that we're talking about books being in the books, while there are many books read within other books, I don't think I've ever seen any show or movie that has scenes where actors play actors reenact a scene those actors played. A play within a play.

I've seen it elsewhere, but I can't remember where. I feel like I've seen movies where the film ended with someone telling the story that just happened (like, the hero hearing some random mom telling their kid the story), accentuating the EPIC nature of the story. I also feel like I've seen something with time travel to the future where a character sees or hears someone telling a story to someone else and freaks out cause of how it differs from what really happened. I might just have a really active imagination. I've seen too many movies/tv shows.

5. "Snug as a bug in a rug"

I've never heard those other 4, but my mom used to say that when I was a little tiny kid and wrapped up in sheets or something. Weird.

I get that they prefered life over a pointless death (I have a hard time understanding the Blackfishs "I'd prefer a pointless death over a purpose in life" attitude), it just seems to render the entire siege-plot pointless if they could have just sent Edmure in in the first place (unless the only purpose of that plot was to show how great Jaime suddenly is at manipulating and how the Freys are idiots). I'm no expert on medieval warfare, but I'd guess a siege is rather expensive...

They didn't send Edmure in the first place cause he was a useless idiot and he had no motivation for convincing them to surrender. The guy leading the Frey's troops was also an idiot who didn't realize that the troops there would listen to Edmure, and just gave up after the Blackfish told them he didn't care about Edmure. And finally, the only reason he was able to make the castle surrender was because of Jaime's very...motivating monologue in which he became convinced that it was either he do that or EVERYONE gets killed, including his wife and child, which I guess were not threatened before? You're right that the only real purpose of the plot seemed to be to show how great Jaime suddenly is at manipulating, but a bit of character development on one of the main characters is fine with me.

It was sort of lame that the Blackfish just died offscreen, but from what I read it was probably due to the actor being in no shape at all to do any kind of battle scene.

 

[inaudio]

Just finished watching the ninth episode. I really, really liked it but...

Spoiler

...I was hoping that they'd outlaw flaying again by making Ramsay Bolton the last flayed man in Westeros - figuratively and literally. However, I did really like Sansa's reply to Ramsay's "They're loyal beasts" line. "They were and now they're starving" - I think she might also be referring to the direwolves, aka. the Starks.

 

[Xaios]

Well, that was glorious. Great action all around, interspersed with great dialogue and great character moments. Everything you could possibly want.

Spoiler

When Ramsey sent Rickon out running, I actually figured that he was going to send out the dogs after him. While it would have been incredibly effective, I'm actually kinda glad they didn't. I couldn't have handled that, and they still managed to make it believable that Ramsey would piss Jon off enough to break formation.

 

[wankerness]

While it was satisfying, it hit some dramatic flat notes. Like, the super-lame "Littlefinger rides over the hill to save the day" was something I was hoping wouldn't happen cause it seemed way too obvious for a show that tends to subvert those kind of tropes, but NOPE!!!

I also feel like Jon should have suffered more consequences for not listening to Sansa, considering he did EXACTLY what she told him not to, to the death of hundreds of CGI cannon fodder characters and Wun Wun. None of the major characters died as a result of his actions besides Wun Wun, he just won the battle anyway thanks to Deus Ex Littlefinger, which we all saw coming from a million miles away, even though the episode inexplicably gave us several scenes between Jon and Sansa in which she never gave any hint she'd contacted him, I guess to make the audience think more that it wouldn't happen.

The battle footage was all very good and I really liked what happened in Meereen, it was surprising how many effects they did there and that they advanced the plot so far. Nice to see Danaerys acting likably again and the Iron Islands thing already going somewhere instead of just being some vague "they're going to get there someday next season, and then it will take 10 episodes for them to figure out what to do!" thing like I thought it would be.

I was surprised by how santized the Ramsay death was. I figured they'd show his face get eaten off in loving detail, considering all the gore they've showed him commit against others. It ended up being far less gruesome than the season 2 face eating on the Hannibal series. I was kind of glad it didn't let Sansa get down to his ....ty level and torture him or personally chop his nuts off or something, but glad that she still kinda pulled the trigger.

 

[Xaios]

I guess it felt a little flat in retrospect, but considering how well they'd managed to sell the notion that "yup, the heroes are gonna die," what with the shield wall (an ironic reversal of not only the tactics that the Jon planned to use on Ramsey's forces, but also the outcome of the battle of Cannae) and Jon nearly getting buried under a mountain of bodies, I felt like it earned it at the time, even knowing full well that the knights of the Vale were gonna ride and save the day Return of the King style. Plus, I think it also serves another purpose: it cements the fact that, while Jon is clearly the kind of person who inspires loyalty in a fighting force, he also doesn't have what it takes to be a real leader, which effectively confirms Sansa as the new head of the Stark household and warden of the North. It actually dovetails nicely with the earlier scene between Dany and Yara where they agreed to both support each other in their respective bids to become the first female regents of their respective domains. Power to the women.

 

[wankerness]

I saw someone else comment that they thought Sansa clearly was playing Jon after he acted like such an idiot the previous night. As in, her not telling him about Littlefinger was neither a plot hole nor her being secretive just cause he told her not to.

Either, she was waiting for most of his forces to get killed so she'd essentially consolidate power in the north (considering he's a bastard, and she knew that Rickon was dead meat anyway), or she had just lost all faith in his stupid ass (clearly justified given he acted like a stupid ass) and figured he would have gotten the Littlefinger army killed if he'd had access to them at the start of the battle.

She sure is shaping up to be a rather badass and maybe even evil lady, and it will be cool as long as we don't have to ever see Littlefinger bang her, which the show has been threatening us with for years now

Of course, it could just be a Helm's Deep deus ex machina stupid moment and she might not have been so canny. But I'm hoping it was Sansa being awesome.

I'm really pissed that we're probably going to have to lose Melisandre or Davos next week. I love both of those characters and the show will be less rich without them.

 

[Xaios]

Another random thought: Jon's offer to Ramsay of settling the entire affair in single combat was possibly a callback to when Jaime extended the same offer to Robb at the end of Season 1. Albeit for different reasons, both situations ended up with the same result: the guy who declined the offer because it would be foolish and reckless ends up biting it.

 

[Fraz666]

While it was satisfying, it hit some dramatic flat notes. Like, the super-lame "Littlefinger rides over the hill to save the day" was something I was hoping wouldn't happen cause it seemed way too obvious for a show that tends to subvert those kind of tropes, but NOPE!!!

agree.
and they came in one night, from where?


another one, the plot of 6 seasons of Daenerys is:
"surrender to us"
"no, you will"
fire.


To avoid spoilers* I woke up at 2:45 to see the live broadcast, then I went back to get some sleep before work.
Now I am satisfied but destroyed.
"What is spoiled may never spoil"


* here in Europe we see the episode the next evening that in USA so it's easy to find comments of those who saw it live or on the following morning.
like, you open facebook to make the birthday wishes to your aunt and the first thing you see is a picture of Hodor with crying emoticons...