Game of Thrones

Discussion in 'Movies, Books, TV & Media' started by flexkill, Mar 31, 2013.

  1. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Funny, I thought it was the best of a very mixed season. :lol:

    Eh, end of the day... it's enjoyable TV, and I'll be drinking the Night's Watch Oban while watching the series finale on Sunday. There's very little TV I go out of my way to watch, and even though I've had some pretty big plot issues with the way this is wrapping up, it's still made enjoyable watching.
     
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  2. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire thy fart is murder

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    Damn, I was hoping for an Anita Ward cover.
     
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  3. spudmunkey

    spudmunkey SS.org Regular

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    As someone who's never watched a single episode, is it actually over on Sunday? Since I'm going to have to pirate it, I didn't want to start it unless I knew I could get it all.
     
  4. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Yeah, Sunday is the series finale.
     
  5. Lorcan Ward

    Lorcan Ward 7slinger

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    Binge watching 8 seasons of GOT might be a bit intense!
     
  6. jaxadam

    jaxadam SS.org Regular

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  7. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    These people are fast approaching the Last Jedi crew. Soon it's going to be impossible to criticize it without aligning yourself with terrible people.
     
  8. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    People are complaining about the entire season before it's even over. Maybe you won't like it if you've already convinced yourself that it'll be bad. :shrug:
     
  9. mongey

    mongey SS.org Regular

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    Its funny I have been talking it over with people at work, my work is 85% female . I have found a very strong reaction from allot of females towards Dany's actions. like its a slight on woman hood
     
  10. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    Sounds like some of that 85% is DUMB! :)
     
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  11. Jonathan20022

    Jonathan20022 Engineer

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    Dude, it's modern day premium television.

    This show went from great writing with an ever growing budget to having a complete hack take over and go wild with that still growing budget. You don't have to see the future to tell something isn't going to meet expectations, never got the whole "wait until it's over" thing I always hear. The finale somehow being amazing (according to spoilers, it won't be. yes I looked them up because I'm well over it) won't change the how sub-par/terrible some of these episodes have been.
     
  12. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    What complete hack took over and how?
     
  13. jaxadam

    jaxadam SS.org Regular

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    M Night Shyamalan
     
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  14. Emperor Guillotine

    Emperor Guillotine The Almighty Ruler

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    YouTuber MauLer uploaded his "An Unbridled Rage" review of S8, E4 yesterday. (I'm assuming he is running slow on an E5 review video because it's truly hard to even care about the show anymore...I know that I'm in that boat). It's 45 minutes long and tears apart a lot of the issues with E4 going into E5, but the last 9 or 10 minutes really hit the nail on the head.

     
  15. Emperor Guillotine

    Emperor Guillotine The Almighty Ruler

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    So, I finally got around to watching S8, E5 after about a week of procrastinating simply because, like many Game of Thrones fans, I have been finding it increasingly difficult to even care about the TV series with how much of a trainwreck this final season has been.

    With that said, I’m going to drop a nuke on many of the things that are wrong with this episode. So, let’s do this.

    - Tyrion really believes in Daenerys so much that he so easily betrays Varys? Bullshit. Lest we forget, Varys is the only person aside from Jaime Lannister who ever came to Tyrion’s defense. I mean, Varys smuggled Tyrion out of King’s Landing in a fucking box and had him shipped over to Essos because he believed that Tyrion’s life was worth saving so that he could serve Daenerys. So, after Varys saved Tyrion’s life, Tyrion so easily rats him out? And then, we the viewers are expected to believe that Varys was so easily ready to betray Daenerys, knowing that he would be caught and executed? What did Varys think he was? A martyr? Yeah…no. That's not in his character. Varys is way smarter than that as the Master of Whispers. This is just bad writing.

    - Why is the military in formation outside of the walls of King’s Landing. Ok, come on… Can D&D at least pretend to know about basic military tactics and the purpose of having a wall around a city in the first place?

    - The Hound mentions the Dothraki early on in the episode. We see the Dothraki charge into King’s Landing, and then they vanish for the entire episode until Arya’s escape sequence where she is running through the streets. We see the Unsullied fighting. We see Northmen fighting. But we never see any Dothraki period until they fly by in Arya’s escape sequence. Where did they all go? What were they doing?

    - Why did absolutely no one in Daenerys’ encampment care nor mention that Jaime was mysteriously missing the morning after Tyrion freed him?

    - Tyrion asked Davos to either smuggle a dingy to the entrance of the cavern/grotto under King’s Landing, or he asked Davos to smuggle Jaime and Cersei out of King’s Landing (which Davos probably wouldn’t do knowing his character). This request seemed to be entirely tossed out the window almost immediately because Davos is seen standing on the rock with Tyrion and Jon Snow before the assault on King’s Landing commences.

    - All of Daenerys’ commanders (Jon, Tyrion, Grey Worm, Davos, etc.) plan for an attack at dawn. They say explicitly an attack at dawn, and Jon says “no later”. But then, they instead commence the attack at midday when the sun is high in the sky. (Remember that Daenerys used the sun and the clouds to hide from the Iron Fleet’s sight before she began attacking.) What a blatantly sad inconsistency...

    - Speaking of inconsistency, let’s talk about the inconsistency with the editing. In the scene where Jon, Grey Worm, and a horde of both Unsullied and Northmen have their tense stand-off at the deserted bell tower, we see Daenerys land Drogon nearby, waiting. But when Daenerys lands, the cut shows that the area around the bell tower is clearly flooded with civilians. No Jon, no Grey Worm, and no soldiers. Just a ton of civilians. Then it immediately cuts back to Jon, Grey Worm, and the troops, once again showing the area at the bell tower deserted except for the soldiers having their tense stand-off. To further prove that this is the same exact bell tower, cuts to Tyrion are interspersed between, and Tyrion can see the troops having their stand-off and he can also see Daenerys and Drogon perched nearby. (So, you’re going to tell me that no one caught the bad cut of Daenerys landing and the area being clearly flooded with civilians instead of soldiers? Fuck off.)

    - Ringing the bells is not the sign for surrender in King’s Landing. (Jaime confirms this in a way, which I’ll address in a second.) The ringing of the bells was something that Tyrion completely made up in hopes that Jaime (as his inside man) could ring the bells and it would halt any unnecessary bloodshed and protect the civilians in King’s Landing if Daenerys’ commanders actually listened to Tyrion's words. This was a nice attempt at trickery on Tyrion’s part, but it ultimately did not work as the viewer witnesses. Jaime should’ve said something though because he surely would’ve known that ringing the bells wasn’t the signal for surrender in King’s Landing. (Remember, Jaime was a member of the Kingsguard for 20 years. Seems like D&D forgot about that.) Also, Jaime clearly does not ring the bells. He instead heads to the cavern entrance beneath King’s Landing. So, who rang the bells? An inconsistency perhaps?

    - Why was Jaime even down at the entrance to the cavern below King’s Landing in the first place? Was he trying to sneak in backwards (from the cavern) into the catacombs below King’s Landing where the dragon skulls are located? Surely, he could’ve just shown his hand/identity to the Lannister men who shut the gate to the Red Keep and gotten inside, right? I mean, he is the queen’s brother. So they ought to have let him inside. But nope, D&D had to set things up for the “Dane Bowl”.

    - The “Dane Bowl” with Jaime versus Euron was absolutely lame, pointless, and unnecessary. It had zero effect on the story since Jaime just walked away despite being stabbed multiple times by Euron who just so happened to magically wash up on the same spit of beach at the same time that Jaime was there. This fight was just D&D deciding to pit two characters against each other simply because the two had fucked the same woman.

    - After finally finding Cersei in the Red Keep, Jaime seems to have magically forgotten that she sent Bronn to kill him with a giant crossbow in the previous episode before Tyrion haggled Bronn down with the offer of Highgarden. Maybe it’s just me here, but I don’t think sending an assassin to kill you is the kind of thing that you easily forget.

    - What the fuck even happened to Bronn? Where did he go after the last episode? Did he just teleport off and the viewers will never see nor hear from him again?

    - Jaime and Cersei, these two great characters in television history, both died by simply having rubble dumped on them, which seems odd considering that the viewers previously witnessed Gregor Clegane protect Cersei from having half of a fucking tower collapsing on top of her only a few minutes prior. Maybe it’s just me here, but I think that Jaime and Cersei should’ve gone out in a more epic fashion.

    - Springboarding off the previous point, I bet that the next episode will show Tyrion kicking through the rubble of the Red Keep, and he is going to uncover Jaime’s dented up golden hand but no bodies; thus, signaling that Jaime and Cersei somehow miraculously survived having a castle collapse on top of them (because, ya know, “plot armor”), but the viewer will never see Jaime or Cersei ever again. We will be left to simply infer. But that would be a totally stupid move to pull because Daenerys, Jon, Tyrion and all of the others need confirmation of Cersei’s death (they need a body) for each of their own personal reasons and in order to proclaim Daenerys as the new queen.

    - Related point here: this is neither a qualm nor an issue, but it was a nice touch of realism to see Cersei regress into being a scared, little girl. It exposed what bit of humanity there was at her core and it showed her at her most vulnerable point.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  16. Emperor Guillotine

    Emperor Guillotine The Almighty Ruler

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    Continuation with more issues in the episode.
    - Why did the Unsullied and the Northmen (and the Dothraki?) perceive Daenerys suddenly lighting the city up with fire as a “go ahead” to commit an amoral free-for-all? I mean, Grey Worm began taking out enemies when there was absolutely no need to. Although, with that said, Grey Worm succumbing to rage and taking it out on innocent civilians is pretty reflective of humans in reality and how we also succumb to rage and take it out on others, as heartless as that may sound.

    - Seriously, why the fuck did Daenerys have to torch King’s Landing? Why could she not just fly up to the Red Keep, burn the tower where Cersei was shacked up, and called it a day? She had no reason to torch King’s Landing and commit a mass genocide of innocent civilians. IT MAKES ZERO SENSE. At this point, I am convinced that Daenerys committing a mass genocide of innocent civilians was a move pulled out of nowhere for “shits and giggles” by D&D as a giant “fuck you” to all of the moronic fans who named their daughters or pets or whatever “Daenerys” or “Khaleesi” after this character who is now a self-entitled, mass murdering maniac of a millennial female.

    - Arya suddenly changes her mind about killing Cersei after the Hound simply tells her to go home. Ok, first off, the two of them should’ve had that conversation before they even left Winterfell. Why have it now of all times after traveling a thousand miles to be at the King's Landing? Why? Just so she can call him by his first name like they are now on a cutesy, first name basis? Fuck off. This nullifies Arya’s entire character buildup because she has been wanting to kill Cersei since Season 1. Cersei’s name has been at the top of Arya’s death list that she has prattled off every night before bedtime. And now, Arya is going to magically decide to pass up on the perfect opportunity to finally kill Cersei? Bullshit. Total fucking bullshit.

    - The Hound could’ve killed Cersei, but he didn’t. He just let her walk right on by. WHY DIDN’T HE KILL CERSEI? He had nothing to lose by doing so. It would’ve been quick and easy. It would’ve ended the war. It would’ve all been over.

    - The “Clegane Bowl” was pure fan service and was a total letdown. It didn’t affect the story in any way whatsoever. Even the fight at the Hand’s tournament back in Season 1 was more epic than the “Clegane Bowl”. I understand that having both the Hound and the Mountain perish together was the most fulfilling end because we see the hero (the Hound) topple the enemy (the Mountain) even at the cost of his own life, but did D&D really have to cop-out and resort to the whole “revenge is a bad path that will lead to your destruction” cliché that we have heard time and time again? Come on…

    - The random, untouched, unscathed horse just chilling in front of Arya. You’re going to tell me that a white horse got the balls to ride into a blazing inferno and then just stopped in front of Arya and was taking in the scenery? Fuck off. That was a very, very poor attempt at symbolism for nothing.
     
  17. Emperor Guillotine

    Emperor Guillotine The Almighty Ruler

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    Specifically regarding Jaime’s ruined character arc:
    - Jaime’s entire redemption arc with all of his development over the seasons is tossed out the window when he regresses and willingly chooses to go back to Cersei. He underwent so many changes as a character throughout the TV series (and in the book series), and all of it is just nullified. Sure, Jaime did some shitty things such as pushing Brann out the window of the tower and killing Ned’s men, but he also did some heroic deeds such as stabbing the Mad King, saving half of King’s Landing, helping protect the Stark girls to fulfill a promise to Catelyn Stark, etc. His entire story is one of redemption, and D&D just tore it apart at the end. I understand that Jaime and Cersei came into the world together, so it is only fitting that they go out together, but it seems like such a bland cliché, especially for such a strongly developed character. With all of that said, I do find Jaime’s gravitation back towards Cersei to be an accurate reflection of the nature of toxic relationships in reality and how we humans just cannot seem to let go of toxic relationships (or toxic behavioral patterns).

    - Jaime took it upon himself to kill the Mad King in order to save Westeros. And yet, he won’t do the same with Daenerys in order to save the innocent civilians of King’s Landing whom Daenerys is killing simply because he wants to get to Cersei? Come on…

    Specifically regarding D&D’s destruction of Daenerys as a character and the fact that none of what we witnessed in S8, E5 lines up with who Daenerys is:
    - Earlier in the series (I forget which episode), Daenerys told Varys explicitly that she did not travel to Westeros to become the “Queen of the Ashes”. Earlier in the series (I also forget which episode), Daenerys said to Jorah Mormont that the 200,000 slaves in Yunkai were “200,000 reasons to take the city”. She also tells Jorah that any blood on her hands as a result of her conquest will be “the blood of her enemies, not the blood of innocents”.

    - In the previous episode (S8, E4), Daenerys says that she wants to make sure that the people of King’s Landing “know that Daenerys Stormborn made every effort to avoid bloodshed”, ensuring that the general populace would blame Cersei instead. Well, looks like D&D tossed that statement right out the window, didn’t they?

    - Daenerys did so much in Essos in order to prove that she was a caring, compassionate person. She freed slaves, she destroyed the slave trade (at least in the TV series), she tried to protect her abusive asshole of a brother Viserys from the Dothraki, she spared Varys who tried to have her killed, she spared Jaime who killed her father, she was mhysa to all of the people whom she freed. She was never set up to be a genocidal maniac.

    - With that above point said, Daenerys has indeed done some very cruel acts, and she has been quite alright with burning enemies alive in the past including: burning Miri Mas Dur on Khal Drogo’s pyre, burning the necromancers at the House of the Undying, burning the slaver who sold her the Unsullied in exchange for Drogon, burning the masters at Astapor, burning the masters at Meereen, burning the Khals who were simply trying to return her to Vaes Dothrak, burning Randall Tarly and Samwell Tarly’s brother, etc. But every single time that she committed such an act of burning a human alive, it was always a calculated move in order to stop an enemy from inhibiting her so that she could progress with her cause of abolishing slavery and breaking the feudalistic wheel. Each burning was for “the greater good” as voiced by those who backed her and supported her in her conquest. Each burning was not an impulsive, spur-of-the-moment killing done in rage or madness like the mass genocide bullshit that D&D wrote in for S8, E5. So, it is illogical to say that those handful of acts committed by Daenerys were evidence leading up to her sudden “snap” and decision to torch all of King’s Landing. That is total fucking bullshit. That is so unlike Daenerys’ character. There is a vast difference between individually executing your enemies (who are out to harm you or stop you from attaining your goals) and mass attacking innocent civilians.

    - Sure, Daenerys did indeed state in S8, E5 that fear was her only method for taking the throne. She had just arrived in Westeros from across the Narrow Sea and announced that she was rightfully queen. She had not done anything to earn the people’s love and affection, and she absolutely refused to take the time to do so. She told Jon: “I don’t have love here. I only have fear.” This presents the classic Machiavellian dilemma: a ruler has to be either loved or feared. Daenerys had the latter but not the former. And yet, for contrast, in all of the episodes of Season 8 thus far, some character at some point has said that more and more houses/forces are backing Daenerys (such as the announcement in S8, E5 that the Prince of Dorne was now backing her). So, she clearly had some measure of support and love from the people, or at least she had support from those who didn’t want Cersei to be the queen of Westeros. That right there ought to have been enough to work with. So there is no way whatsoever that Daenerys could have the utilization of fear as her sole course of action for taking the throne when so many people were backing her. She wasn’t forced to torch King’s Landing nor did she have to do it. She clearly had some measure of support and love. She didn’t just “snap” out of nowhere. D&D simply wanted to ruin her character.

    - I can truly appreciate a good “fall from grace” character arc, but only if it is done properly. And in the case of the character of Daenerys Stormborn, it was not done properly. D&D absolutely butchered her character beyond recognition. She started off as a hero and lived long enough to see herself become the villain in a way that makes absolutely ZERO LOGICAL SENSE given her history and the evidence that we the viewers have of her actions. (Yeah that "hero/villian" quote was indeed a reference to Aaron Eckhart’s character of Two-Face in 2008’s The Dark Knight, a relatively decent example of a “fall from grace” character arc, even if he was predictable. Perhaps D&D should've taken some notes.)
     
  18. Emperor Guillotine

    Emperor Guillotine The Almighty Ruler

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    When assessing the actions of any character in the Game of Thrones TV series now, I can’t help but to think: “What would Tywin Lannister do if he were in that character’s position instead?” This seems like a good way of assessing how much bullshit is present in the writing of a character’s actions in Game of Thrones now.

    Here are some videos that I’m going to leave you guys with.







     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  19. Emperor Guillotine

    Emperor Guillotine The Almighty Ruler

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  20. Chris Bowsman

    Chris Bowsman SS.org Regular

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    Well, that sucked.
     

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