Feeling kinda bad for Suhr...

MaxOfMetal

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I never said once that Suhr is losing business or would lose business because some people stopped playing their guitars or because other brands made copies. The only thing I "felt bad" about was that people used to "rep" Suhrs a lot more and it probably feels good to see so many pros all collectively using your guitars. Again, saying that I "felt bad" was stupid wording and not reflective of my feelings, but I can't go back and change the title of the thread after all. So laugh away at my supposed "misery" for a prestigious and successful company, I guess I should have thought more carefully.

Also props to the dunce who managed to shift the thread into a discussion about the ethics of buying a Chinese-made instrument. Made it a much more interesting read overall.

The thing is, if you knew Suhr (the man and the company) you'd understand how completely un-bothered they are about artist movement and drama.
 

Jonathan20022

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It seems strange to care this much about endorsees knowing full well they are completely bought out in discounts/free gear to play a brand's instruments.

Anything short of a long term commitment (Vai/Satriani/Petrucci) means nothing to me as an individual. Artists are fickle and indeed they should be, their career path isn't a lucrative one so a deal where they get supplied more instruments is obviously a smarter choice. I just won't believe any over produced announcement video where "best ever" claims are being tossed around.

Also I've owned two AZ2402's and while good, they were not in the same league as any single Suhr I've ever owned. It's a godsend that once niche specs are now more common, and at price points that benefit everyone. But I certainly don't feel bad for Suhr, they aren't hurting, and both products/brands are thriving in their own markets.
 

bigcupholder

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You have to give Ibanez credit for staying relevant. Unlike Gibson and Fender, who I'd guess are the only bigger guitar companies by sales volume, Ibanez doesn't have a guitar that they could churn out for decades unchanged and sell at a premium based on nostalgia alone. They constantly reinvent themselves, take risks and, yes, throw cash at endorsement deals. That's business.

TLDR: just be glad Ibanez isn't trying to be like Fender or Gibson.
 

Bloody_Inferno

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You have to give Ibanez credit for staying relevant. Unlike Gibson and Fender, who I'd guess are the only bigger guitar companies by sales volume, Ibanez doesn't have a guitar that they could churn out for decades unchanged and sell at a premium based on nostalgia alone. They constantly reinvent themselves, take risks and, yes, throw cash at endorsement deals. That's business.

TLDR: just be glad Ibanez isn't trying to be like Fender or Gibson.

Fender are fine. They've got Jackson, Charvel, EVH, Gretch, Guild, Squier etc as their subsidiaries so they can cast a wide net. With those subsidiaries catering to different players (Charvel is covering the Suhr inspired market) Fender can easily focus on their core traditional lineup that let's face it, still popular to this day.
 

sakeido

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I only feel sorta sorry that they lost Guthrie Govan. They lost some real big dick energy that day...
I dunno seeing the guy lately, I don't think you really want him as a spokesperson for your company anyways ... dude is so bitter and jaded it's ridiculous

Maybe I just went on a run of watching vids of him when he was in a bad mood but he was so negative he didn't make me want to play a guitar, never mind buy one
 

CanserDYI

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I dunno seeing the guy lately, I don't think you really want him as a spokesperson for your company anyways ... dude is so bitter and jaded it's ridiculous

Maybe I just went on a run of watching vids of him when he was in a bad mood but he was so negative he didn't make me want to play a guitar, never mind buy one
Can you link these? Because the ones i've seen of him ages ago I thought he sounded super positive! lol
 
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I dunno seeing the guy lately, I don't think you really want him as a spokesperson for your company anyways ... dude is so bitter and jaded it's ridiculous

Maybe I just went on a run of watching vids of him when he was in a bad mood but he was so negative he didn't make me want to play a guitar, never mind buy one

Huh, interesting. I honestly haven't kept up with his activities since The Aristocrats' 3rd album. Went to see them live on that tour and that show was the nail in the coffin: I'm not so into fusion virtuoso compositions anymore. And then he joined freaking Steven Wilson (ugh).

Not to throw extra shade but Marco Minneman recently said he doesn't get along with Wilson. Perhaps all that working together has turned Govan sour? Lmao

I would also be interested in seeing bitter jaded Govan if you have links.
 

sakeido

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Can you link these? Because the ones i've seen of him ages ago I thought he sounded super positive! lol

Huh, interesting. I honestly haven't kept up with his activities since The Aristocrats' 3rd album. Went to see them live on that tour and that show was the nail in the coffin: I'm not so into fusion virtuoso compositions anymore. And then he joined freaking Steven Wilson (ugh).

Not to throw extra shade but Marco Minneman recently said he doesn't get along with Wilson. Perhaps all that working together has turned Govan sour? Lmao

I would also be interested in seeing bitter jaded Govan if you have links.

There's a series of him sitting in a gazebo for a G4 bootcamp but watching it back, I'm sure they are just very (very) dry jokes. So I musta been an uncharitable mood when I was watching it. Maybe jealous of his immaculate playing.
 

Jonathan20022

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You have to give Ibanez credit for staying relevant. Unlike Gibson and Fender, who I'd guess are the only bigger guitar companies by sales volume, Ibanez doesn't have a guitar that they could churn out for decades unchanged and sell at a premium based on nostalgia alone. They constantly reinvent themselves, take risks and, yes, throw cash at endorsement deals. That's business.

TLDR: just be glad Ibanez isn't trying to be like Fender or Gibson.

You're over-valuing a largely unnecessary need to break from the mold, the audience is largely conventional in their desires. The same guy who wants a 3 Pickup Black Beauty/Cherry Red ES335/Daphne Blue Tele/Sunburst Strat isn't going to break from those desires over time, and that's the demographic they cater to.

Gibson and Fender have arguably done far more interesting concepts than Ibanez and other modern companies have. Reactionary and extremely late to the party releases of products with Multiscale/Headless/Poplar Burl/Roasted Maple/Stainless Steel Frets to follow industry trends is just a move towards relevancy. That doesn't discredit what cool releases Ibanez has done, but in the same way you're criticizing the larger brand for releasing redundant after redundant model, the brands on you praise do as well. But the mainstream brands don't have to worry about relevancy, because they were never irrelevant from market share perspective in the first place.

I think you're just ascribing niche forum relevancy more importance than it deserves having :lol:
 

HoneyNut

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I dunno seeing the guy lately, I don't think you really want him as a spokesperson for your company anyways ... dude is so bitter and jaded it's ridiculous

Maybe I just went on a run of watching vids of him when he was in a bad mood but he was so negative he didn't make me want to play a guitar, never mind buy one
GG bitter? Where? I never got that feeling that he was bitter. Which interview/video are you talking about?

Edit: I see you are talking about the G4 series on YT. No he wasn't bitter there. Plus, he was happy someone gave him a beer.
 

mastapimp

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There's a series of him sitting in a gazebo for a G4 bootcamp but watching it back, I'm sure they are just very (very) dry jokes. So I musta been an uncharitable mood when I was watching it. Maybe jealous of his immaculate playing.
I've seen him a handful of times and spoken to him after some shows and he's been a great guy each and every time. He does get upset when people whip out their cell phones and film him while he's on stage. I've been to at least 2 Aristocrats shows with a no phone recording policy and have seen Guthrie shoot a nasty glance or finger wag when people don't respect the rules.
 

Mwoit

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There's a series of him sitting in a gazebo for a G4 bootcamp but watching it back, I'm sure they are just very (very) dry jokes. So I musta been an uncharitable mood when I was watching it. Maybe jealous of his immaculate playing.

Not having read the entire thread, but GG is incredibly British and I'll chalk it down to that English wit, real dry sarcasm haha.
 

Lemonbaby

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Their main target audience is wealthy "older" players who couldn't care less about any modern endorser, so any impact of AZs or DKs will be truly minuscule in terms of demand.
This. I see them targetting the same type of customers as PRS with their Core series. Mostly old bums who just happen to have enough money and want a nice guitar... like myself.
 

Thaeon

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Somebody in this thread already mentioned that Suhr doesn't do traditional endorsement deals (think it was Max), so it's likely a touring artist will have to pay for backups out of their own pocket with Suhr. No financially responsible touring artist who's just starting out is going to pay for a top-end Suhr when they can get multiple functionally fine guitars for free that get the job done.

Realistically speaking - how many 'backups' are you going to get through Suhr versus a deal with Ibanez or Fender? What about if you want something with a few different pickup configs? Ibanez could literally send you one of dozens of production guitars right off the shelf anywhere in the world. Gear gets stolen? Bummer, but your guitar is easily replaceable.

If you’re playing shows on gear like a Suhr, you should be insuring it. Most of these tours have some kind of business insurance as well. You have to to not be in violation of a lot of laws and putting yourself in a particularly dangerous legal place liability wise. Get insurance. Mine is less than $20 a month and covers all of my kit.
 

dreamspace

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Tbh, I'm happy that a lot of these online shredders/influencers are going with more affordable import signature / endorsement guitars from brands like Ibanez / Charvel / Jackson / etc.

Boutique brands like Suhr / Tom Anderson / James Tyler / etc. make fantastic guitars - I've owned multiple of each, and given financial situation, I'd probably want to only own those guitars. But that's not realistic for the majority of the world - some player outside the western world will probably never be able to purchase a $5000 custom Suhr.

And with that said, those boutique brands know their audience. They know damn well that it's not 18 year olds kids that are purchasing their stuff, and they've spent 35-40 year building their brands and reputation, so their guitars are almost selling themselves at this point. They're not gonna go away anytime soon, and those buying $800 MiI Charvel or Ibanez guitars aren't exactly the same people that'd spend all their money at Suhr/TA/etc. shops.
 

Stiman

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I don't care what it is, there will always be more $1000 guitars sold than $3000 to $4000 guitars.

After playing (and owning) a MIM Charvel, I have zero interest in what Suhr is doing.

On a similar note, having just bought a MIM DK24, I'm looking at the Rick Graham Signature DK24 and scratching my head as to why it's more than double the price. Just because it's made in Japan??
 

Jeffrey Bain

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On a similar note, having just bought a MIM DK24, I'm looking at the Rick Graham Signature DK24 and scratching my head as to why it's more than double the price. Just because it's made in Japan??
That's correct; MIJ just fetch that price point
 

HoneyNut

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On a similar note, having just bought a MIM DK24, I'm looking at the Rick Graham Signature DK24 and scratching my head as to why it's more than double the price. Just because it's made in Japan??

And there's also the USA DK24 which differs with a flamed neck and stainless steel for more than double the price of the MIM DK24s.

This is simply how dumb the guitar market is. It's just a piece of wood. Yet, prices vary depending on where it's made.

Any product, with all its components, as long as it's maintains a level of quality control, should not be priced differently based on where it is made. That's not the case for smartphones. But it is the case for guitars.

It's just our biased perception of where it's made inflates or deflates the price of a guitar.

A cup of coffee should be priced equally, but again, economic factors come into play. Maybe I need to study on why the price of a cup of coffee varies from place to place.

Regardless, while the Rick Graham model is cool, I don't understand why being MIJ is so much more fashionable than MIM. It's simply because of the history of manufacturing guitars that's associated with Japan. And it's a dumb bias to have.

Take an Ibanez RG. Just make the MIJ models in Indonesia with the same QC controls and Original Edge and Wizard neck, it'll be the same as the MIJ model. The only differentiating factor is that it is simply MIJ that enables them to charge higher prices, and we MIJ (or MIA) owners have bragging rights. It's just dumb.
 

laxu

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Any product, with all its components, as long as it's maintains a level of quality control, should not be priced differently based on where it is made. That's not the case for smartphones. But it is the case for guitars.

Take an Ibanez RG. Just make the MIJ models in Indonesia with the same QC controls and Original Edge and Wizard neck, it'll be the same as the MIJ model. The only differentiating factor is that it is simply MIJ that enables them to charge higher prices, and we MIJ (or MIA) owners have bragging rights. It's just dumb.

It's a question of labor costs. A living wage in China, Indonesia etc is going to be much less money than in Japan. So even for what ends up being the same product in terms of quality, it's just impossible to make it as cheaply in Japan, USA or most of Europe.

Brands that make guitars in multiple countries often have quality tiers or sub-brands (e.g. ESP vs LTD) in their product lineup to avoid diluting the top level stuff.

For many folks brand and country of manufacture are "value added" where they feel they get a higher quality product if it says e.g. Fender and made in USA on the headstock. Had they bought the made in Mexico Fender they would still be wondering what they are missing out on by not getting the US made one. These choices are often not rational and many on this board (including me) are just as guilty of it. It works both ways where you feel like you have "cheated the system" by being in "the know" and buying that cheaper Ibanez AS over that expensive Suhr.
 


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