The thing is, if you knew Suhr (the man and the company) you'd understand how completely un-bothered they are about artist movement and drama.
Feeling kinda bad for Suhr...
- Thread starter Heart Of The Sunrise
- Start date
The thing is, if you knew Suhr (the man and the company) you'd understand how completely un-bothered they are about artist movement and drama.
Jonathan20022
Engineer
It seems strange to care this much about endorsees knowing full well they are completely bought out in discounts/free gear to play a brand's instruments.
Anything short of a long term commitment (Vai/Satriani/Petrucci) means nothing to me as an individual. Artists are fickle and indeed they should be, their career path isn't a lucrative one so a deal where they get supplied more instruments is obviously a smarter choice. I just won't believe any over produced announcement video where "best ever" claims are being tossed around.
Also I've owned two AZ2402's and while good, they were not in the same league as any single Suhr I've ever owned. It's a godsend that once niche specs are now more common, and at price points that benefit everyone. But I certainly don't feel bad for Suhr, they aren't hurting, and both products/brands are thriving in their own markets.
Anything short of a long term commitment (Vai/Satriani/Petrucci) means nothing to me as an individual. Artists are fickle and indeed they should be, their career path isn't a lucrative one so a deal where they get supplied more instruments is obviously a smarter choice. I just won't believe any over produced announcement video where "best ever" claims are being tossed around.
Also I've owned two AZ2402's and while good, they were not in the same league as any single Suhr I've ever owned. It's a godsend that once niche specs are now more common, and at price points that benefit everyone. But I certainly don't feel bad for Suhr, they aren't hurting, and both products/brands are thriving in their own markets.
bigcupholder
SS.org Regular
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2020
- Messages
- 270
- Reaction score
- 266
You have to give Ibanez credit for staying relevant. Unlike Gibson and Fender, who I'd guess are the only bigger guitar companies by sales volume, Ibanez doesn't have a guitar that they could churn out for decades unchanged and sell at a premium based on nostalgia alone. They constantly reinvent themselves, take risks and, yes, throw cash at endorsement deals. That's business.
TLDR: just be glad Ibanez isn't trying to be like Fender or Gibson.
TLDR: just be glad Ibanez isn't trying to be like Fender or Gibson.
Bloody_Inferno
Silence is Violence
Fender are fine. They've got Jackson, Charvel, EVH, Gretch, Guild, Squier etc as their subsidiaries so they can cast a wide net. With those subsidiaries catering to different players (Charvel is covering the Suhr inspired market) Fender can easily focus on their core traditional lineup that let's face it, still popular to this day.
sakeido
Contributor
I dunno seeing the guy lately, I don't think you really want him as a spokesperson for your company anyways ... dude is so bitter and jaded it's ridiculous
Maybe I just went on a run of watching vids of him when he was in a bad mood but he was so negative he didn't make me want to play a guitar, never mind buy one
CanserDYI
Yeah, No, Definitely.
Can you link these? Because the ones i've seen of him ages ago I thought he sounded super positive! lol
bigbusterstar
nya
Huh, interesting. I honestly haven't kept up with his activities since The Aristocrats' 3rd album. Went to see them live on that tour and that show was the nail in the coffin: I'm not so into fusion virtuoso compositions anymore. And then he joined freaking Steven Wilson (ugh).
Not to throw extra shade but Marco Minneman recently said he doesn't get along with Wilson. Perhaps all that working together has turned Govan sour? Lmao
I would also be interested in seeing bitter jaded Govan if you have links.
sakeido
Contributor
There's a series of him sitting in a gazebo for a G4 bootcamp but watching it back, I'm sure they are just very (very) dry jokes. So I musta been an uncharitable mood when I was watching it. Maybe jealous of his immaculate playing.
Jonathan20022
Engineer
You're over-valuing a largely unnecessary need to break from the mold, the audience is largely conventional in their desires. The same guy who wants a 3 Pickup Black Beauty/Cherry Red ES335/Daphne Blue Tele/Sunburst Strat isn't going to break from those desires over time, and that's the demographic they cater to.
Gibson and Fender have arguably done far more interesting concepts than Ibanez and other modern companies have. Reactionary and extremely late to the party releases of products with Multiscale/Headless/Poplar Burl/Roasted Maple/Stainless Steel Frets to follow industry trends is just a move towards relevancy. That doesn't discredit what cool releases Ibanez has done, but in the same way you're criticizing the larger brand for releasing redundant after redundant model, the brands on you praise do as well. But the mainstream brands don't have to worry about relevancy, because they were never irrelevant from market share perspective in the first place.
I think you're just ascribing niche forum relevancy more importance than it deserves having
HoneyNut
Regular
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2014
- Messages
- 735
- Reaction score
- 172
GG bitter? Where? I never got that feeling that he was bitter. Which interview/video are you talking about?
Edit: I see you are talking about the G4 series on YT. No he wasn't bitter there. Plus, he was happy someone gave him a beer.
I've seen him a handful of times and spoken to him after some shows and he's been a great guy each and every time. He does get upset when people whip out their cell phones and film him while he's on stage. I've been to at least 2 Aristocrats shows with a no phone recording policy and have seen Guthrie shoot a nasty glance or finger wag when people don't respect the rules.
Not having read the entire thread, but GG is incredibly British and I'll chalk it down to that English wit, real dry sarcasm haha.
This. I see them targetting the same type of customers as PRS with their Core series. Mostly old bums who just happen to have enough money and want a nice guitar... like myself.
Thaeon
Cosmic Question Asker
If you’re playing shows on gear like a Suhr, you should be insuring it. Most of these tours have some kind of business insurance as well. You have to to not be in violation of a lot of laws and putting yourself in a particularly dangerous legal place liability wise. Get insurance. Mine is less than $20 a month and covers all of my kit.
dreamspace
SS.org Regular
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2019
- Messages
- 20
- Reaction score
- 40
Tbh, I'm happy that a lot of these online shredders/influencers are going with more affordable import signature / endorsement guitars from brands like Ibanez / Charvel / Jackson / etc.
Boutique brands like Suhr / Tom Anderson / James Tyler / etc. make fantastic guitars - I've owned multiple of each, and given financial situation, I'd probably want to only own those guitars. But that's not realistic for the majority of the world - some player outside the western world will probably never be able to purchase a $5000 custom Suhr.
And with that said, those boutique brands know their audience. They know damn well that it's not 18 year olds kids that are purchasing their stuff, and they've spent 35-40 year building their brands and reputation, so their guitars are almost selling themselves at this point. They're not gonna go away anytime soon, and those buying $800 MiI Charvel or Ibanez guitars aren't exactly the same people that'd spend all their money at Suhr/TA/etc. shops.
Boutique brands like Suhr / Tom Anderson / James Tyler / etc. make fantastic guitars - I've owned multiple of each, and given financial situation, I'd probably want to only own those guitars. But that's not realistic for the majority of the world - some player outside the western world will probably never be able to purchase a $5000 custom Suhr.
And with that said, those boutique brands know their audience. They know damn well that it's not 18 year olds kids that are purchasing their stuff, and they've spent 35-40 year building their brands and reputation, so their guitars are almost selling themselves at this point. They're not gonna go away anytime soon, and those buying $800 MiI Charvel or Ibanez guitars aren't exactly the same people that'd spend all their money at Suhr/TA/etc. shops.
Stiman
SS.org Regular
On a similar note, having just bought a MIM DK24, I'm looking at the Rick Graham Signature DK24 and scratching my head as to why it's more than double the price. Just because it's made in Japan??
Jeffrey Bain
SS.org Regular
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2018
- Messages
- 520
- Reaction score
- 420
That's correct; MIJ just fetch that price point
HoneyNut
Regular
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2014
- Messages
- 735
- Reaction score
- 172
And there's also the USA DK24 which differs with a flamed neck and stainless steel for more than double the price of the MIM DK24s.
This is simply how dumb the guitar market is. It's just a piece of wood. Yet, prices vary depending on where it's made.
Any product, with all its components, as long as it's maintains a level of quality control, should not be priced differently based on where it is made. That's not the case for smartphones. But it is the case for guitars.
It's just our biased perception of where it's made inflates or deflates the price of a guitar.
A cup of coffee should be priced equally, but again, economic factors come into play. Maybe I need to study on why the price of a cup of coffee varies from place to place.
Regardless, while the Rick Graham model is cool, I don't understand why being MIJ is so much more fashionable than MIM. It's simply because of the history of manufacturing guitars that's associated with Japan. And it's a dumb bias to have.
Take an Ibanez RG. Just make the MIJ models in Indonesia with the same QC controls and Original Edge and Wizard neck, it'll be the same as the MIJ model. The only differentiating factor is that it is simply MIJ that enables them to charge higher prices, and we MIJ (or MIA) owners have bragging rights. It's just dumb.
Adieu
SS.org Regular
And just make Gibsons at the Chibson plant in Shenzhen
It's a question of labor costs. A living wage in China, Indonesia etc is going to be much less money than in Japan. So even for what ends up being the same product in terms of quality, it's just impossible to make it as cheaply in Japan, USA or most of Europe.
Brands that make guitars in multiple countries often have quality tiers or sub-brands (e.g. ESP vs LTD) in their product lineup to avoid diluting the top level stuff.
For many folks brand and country of manufacture are "value added" where they feel they get a higher quality product if it says e.g. Fender and made in USA on the headstock. Had they bought the made in Mexico Fender they would still be wondering what they are missing out on by not getting the US made one. These choices are often not rational and many on this board (including me) are just as guilty of it. It works both ways where you feel like you have "cheated the system" by being in "the know" and buying that cheaper Ibanez AS over that expensive Suhr.
