Fake Shredders

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by Spaced Out Ace, Nov 2, 2019.

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  1. Avedas

    Avedas SS.org Regular

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    For me, Stephen Taranto is the gold standard in shredding at the moment. Dude is putting up crazy clips every other day on Instagram.
     
  2. HungryGuitarStudent

    HungryGuitarStudent SS.org Regular

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    Totally agree. His note choice and composition skills (and technique) eclipse a lot of players who simply put on boring riffs to play uninspired shred over them.

    @Spicypickles : Lol, yeah Stephen made me want to simultaneously give up the guitar and practice like a madman. It’s been about a year since I’ve discovered him (and his EP).

    Playing his IG licks and some parts of his EP was really a mind blowing experience for me. Thank god for SheetHappens for tabbing the EP, it was a pain in the ass to pick some of it up by ear. By playing his licks, not only am I getting better, his peculiar note choices (namely via stretches) has gotten me out of a compositional rut.

    I recommend anyone who likes his EP and wants to improve in the shred department to pay 8$ and get one of his IG lick pack tabs (or his EP tabs).
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  3. Eptaceros

    Eptaceros Wayfarer

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    Fake shredding only brings one thing to the table = aesthetics. "whoa this sounds cool!"

    Real shredding encompasses SO MUCH MORE. Dedication, sweat, rage, accomplishment, awe, inspiration, etc. It's as stark of a difference as 2D vs 3D. Listening to uber-edited guitar music that is meant to be physically played is akin to a metaphysical simile. Might as well upload your brain to the cloud and float in a vat for the rest of your life.

    I honestly feel bad for people who couldn't care less whether they're listening to real guitar playing or not, because it means that they can't emotionally process what they're hearing to the same degree that others do.
     
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  4. c7spheres

    c7spheres GuitArtist

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    I see shredding as more of a physical and mental accomplishment rather than artistic or emotional. Combining both is nearly impossible and even then rarely holds any emotional content for me, personally. I know that it's different for others, and that's great, but even the greatest techincal players very rarely write something I can be moved by, though I'm very impressed and often in awe of their playing ability. People like Hendrix had it all and continued innovation while paying respect to his mentors, though many can technically outplay what he did. Bruce Lee would be like this to martial arts, wheras bedroom shredding and techincal wankery is like a pro wrestler that doesn't compete in any matches. They have the skills and ability but do nothing with it other than keep getting better., but to what end? Also, I'm not talking about anybody specific here or that has been mentioned either. I respect people want to do it and appreciate the ability, just stating it's not for me.
     
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  5. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    Random hijack of my own thread, but if you guys have any cool videos of Marty Friedman, please share them. I need some inspiration. Even I can't play anything like him, he's still an influence on my playing.
     
  6. BIG ND SWEATY

    BIG ND SWEATY Edgy

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    This is one of the most elitist things I've seen posted on this site. I get the exact same feeling while listening to Rings of Saturn's hyper-edited guitar playing as I do when I listen to your band. It has absolutely nothing to do with being able to emotionally process(insert mega-eyeroll here) riffs and everything to do with how well the riffs are written and the personal preference of the listener.
     
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  7. Eptaceros

    Eptaceros Wayfarer

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    I'm sorry if you feel that's elitist, but I'm just being really real. This is a fundamental matter that I base my life around, and it's something I've dedicated myself to til the grave. I think it's bonkers that you get the same exact feeling listening to RoS/AB, because the two are extremely different on a fundamental level. Bands like RoS are a slap in the face to bands that actually play their songs while recording. And bands like this get encouragement from an audience that doesn't appreciate the HUGE difference between real and fake, creating a vicious cycle of plastic garbage. And I'm not talking about all music. I love electronic music of all kinds, but that music is inherently not "live format" music. We're talking about music that stems from a group of people getting together and physically making noise. The organic give and take of imperfection is literally what rock/metal/etc IS.

    I debated even writing anything in this thread because I've had this same conversation for over a decade with many people, and nothing ever changes. It's the same as the conversation about bands that heavily use backing tracks during live performances, etc. It's all a fucking sham, and it's truly disheartening to see people not give a shit how something as visceral as metal is expressed in a live/recorded format. Especially when you have real people dedicating years of their lives to their craft, only to "share the stage" with some hacks that will do anything for a perfect representation of themselves.

    There's a reason most musicians are on the same side as Tom G. Sometimes, it's worth looking inward.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
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  8. HungryGuitarStudent

    HungryGuitarStudent SS.org Regular

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    Some people like asparagus, some don’t. Some get an emotional response from listening to Bach, some don’t. Different strokes for different folk.
     
  9. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    What the fuck ever happened to bands playing the shit together live in the studio when they record? We've gone from painting on a canvas to mimicking a general facsimile of such in photoshop. Except instead, we went from bands doing it live in the studio with minimal overdubs to manipulating the shit out of a "performance" because "string noise is icky" and "Well, I'll just have my teacher show me how to do it."

    Now, if people are using tracks to mime to (COUGH KISS, MOTLEY CRUE COUGH) then fuck em. If they are using tracks to be able to do something such as allow Eddie to play guitar instead of juggling a keyboard, then fine. Now, if Eddie was miming to that keyboard part, then I'd have an issue with it.

    Then again, it doesn't surprise me that metal fans don't give a shit. A lot of them listen to bands whose drummers use performance girdles known as triggers. Generally doesn't work for me. I'd rather hear a real kit.
     
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  10. USMarine75

    USMarine75 Plays Authentic ® Contributor

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    As someone who actually enjoys Berried Alive, RoS, Within the Ruins, etc. Charlie is incredibly talented. I think his music is actually quite amusing and not just noise (YMMV).

    But... guitarists like that are completely different from traditional guitarists. Precisely what makes guys like Nick Johnston good are the dynamics, inflections, articulations, changes, etc.


    ^
    Here is an example. He repeats the melody lines, but always subtly different each time. That is what is missing with guitarists like Charlie (Berried Alive) that cut+paste+speedup all of their music.

    Anywho... I like them both, but for different reasons.
     
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  11. BIG ND SWEATY

    BIG ND SWEATY Edgy

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    They're really not all that different to me. Far be it from me to tell you about the ethos of your own band but both are out to make interesting music that people want to listen to and both accomplish that, just in different ways. I'm not saying I don't appreciate the immense amount of time and dedication that it takes to reach certain levels of playing because I really am wowed by guys who spend their time trying to be the best player that they can be, I'm saying I don't care if someone uses studio trickery to create something that's creative and interesting to listen to. Whether they want to lie about it and get exposed is up to them, it makes no difference to me what kind of claims they artist wants to make about their abilities. If the music is good that's all that matters to me. Calling people who like that particular aesthetic of metal/music emotionally inept is flat out dumb.
     
  12. akinari

    akinari SS.org Regular

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    Same could be said for those that do care. I think the important thing is that people are capable of feeling a response to both, but understand the nuances and differences between each. As listeners, we owe it to other artists to use our judgment regarding aesthetics and production sparingly, and only in the context of their work specifically, because the choices they make regarding them are logically what they feel benefits the composition, the thing our ears should be looking to judge above all else.

    For instance, when I heard the autotune-esque vocal effect on the new Kayo Dot (nice username btw :)) I was a little thrown off, but I realized that my reaction had zero importance in the grand scheme of the album, got over it, and continued trying to absorb the music and form my opinion of it based on its own merit objectively, and not factor in my personal aesthetic preferences into the equation. Once I made the effort to disregard my reactions to small things I personally would have handled differently, I was able to better appreciate the music, the effort that went into making it, and the unique identity and chemistry of the artists behind it.

    All that said, I see where you're coming from and I do think it's important that people continue to really value the human element of music as it becomes more and more diluted through studio trickery and robotic perfection becoming a very common trait that albums across all sorts of genres share, but there's nothing sad about widening the scope of our appreciation in the process. If anything, it adds a certain nature of specificity to the way we differentiate robot vs. human, and that specificity makes both all the more special.
     
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  13. USMarine75

    USMarine75 Plays Authentic ® Contributor

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    What about where metal bands are using triggered samples?
     
  14. Fred the Shred

    Fred the Shred Shrederick

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    I see backing tracks mentioned here and I think there's a bit of confusion going on: quite a few bands rely on orchestral stuff that is logistically not feasible to pull off outside ridiculous budgets, and Wintersun springs to mind as an example of that. They are super capable, and quite proficient musicians, but I don't find it remotely reasonable to expect them to simply forego touring because they can't afford to bring along a full orchestra and a choir. I won't deny backing tracks are quite likely to be used to disguise one's inadequacies, as it is quite simple to make that happen, and there are actually well known instances of this, but I tend to disagree with blanket statements such as this as it's obviously not the universal use.

    I don't get moved emotionally by super robotic playing, some do, and I'm absolutely cool with whatever it is one may fancy. Just don't BS people, that's all.
     
  15. USMarine75

    USMarine75 Plays Authentic ® Contributor

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    False.

    When I go see Angel Vivaldi, I expect to see dancers and Crossfit Nita.
     
  16. KnightBrolaire

    KnightBrolaire jUsT bUy A 5150

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    He's an absolute fuckin monster. one of the few IG guitarists that I'm consistently impressed by besides Nick Johnson/Ichika Mo
     
  17. Eptaceros

    Eptaceros Wayfarer

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    This two part statement feels contradictory to me. If you ultimately don't care, then you really don't appreciate the effort.

    "Emotion" may have been a wrong choice of words on my part. I'm not quite sure how to express what I'm thinking of...visceral? Physiological depth? Feel? It's really not something that can be put into words, kinda how programmed guitars will never have the same feel as a human's touch. And for anyone who doesn't stress the difference between those two, I still stand by the thought that there's something lacking in how they're listening to music. I know that sounds fucked up, but this is how I see the world. I know music is subjective and all, but there are layers of objectivity here, like the audio-physical difference in frequencies and waveforms coming from a human's touch and something fake.
     
  18. brector

    brector SS.org Regular

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    And here lies your problem
     
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  19. A-Branger

    A-Branger SS.org Regular

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    saw this on my facebook feed and I knew there was a tread around here to trow it



    my mate on FB put it as fake sound and all the coments were people saying its a MIDI track. ITs not MIDI, the video has been speed up. Video starts normal, cuts to a logo, then the fast solo section till the end which has been clearly speed up. Go on youtube and click the settings tab and watch the video at 0.75 speed, you would see him playing at normal speed, his hands and camera movement would feel/look normal and natural. And its a speed thats actually possible to play what hes playing. It only sounds like "MIDI" as the audio has been speedup

    WHAT A FUCING JOKE

    the solo is impressive as its, why the fucking need to speed it up?. This guy just lost any kind of respect as a musician, what a fucking wanker of a guitar player
     
  20. Dumple Stilzkin

    Dumple Stilzkin Special needs member

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    This guy is a great example of what I think the OP is getting at. This mans followers think he is an amazing next level player. Unfortunately that level is too high for him to even play. I respect his compositional(?) skills. But theres about as much substance as a bread sandwich. I love jazz, but it really sounds like a hodge podge of different ideas with no flow whatsoever. I dub thee DingleBerriedAlive.
     
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