Engl shortcomings? Talk me out of it

Discussion in 'Gear & Equipment' started by dan the man, Feb 6, 2015.

  1. dan the man

    dan the man SS.org Regular

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    Hey dudes, long time 6505+ owner here. I've been looking to try something new and to that end I bought a 5150 III 50w and a modded Soldano SL60. Whilst both are great amps, I didn't find exactly what I'm looking for. Problem is: I'm not entirely sure I know what I'm looking for! However, I am basically operating under the assumptions that 1) better tone is out there and 2) I know it when I hear it.

    My research has led me to Engl. What I should do is drive out to a store that has one and try it out, which is the best method for gear decisions. Problem is, I don't really feel like driving the 2 hours each way across the border to try one out. (Guitar centers in the area have jack fvcking sh!t and the closest store is Cosmo Music in Canada I think)

    I've heard a lot about how awesome Engls are, but what I'm interested in hearing is opinions of people that had them, didn't like them, and got rid of them. I'd like to know why, and any shortcoming/flaw that Engls have in anyone's experience.

    Also, I don't know a lot about the models, but mainly I'm looking at the Savage, Fireball and Blackmore. Tone I'm going for is thickly saturated high gain with clarity, balls and nothing too harsh in the highs
     
  2. Sdrizis89

    Sdrizis89 SS.org Regular

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    I have an ENGL Savage and have compared it to 5150s, 5150 III, hughes and kettner triamps, mesa dual rec, bogner uberschall and some others and find that the engl suit me best. I own the hughes and kettner and bogner so ive compared to those alot. I use no boost or overdirve with the engl but have to with the others. The savage does the tone i hear in my head and it does it very well. Great tone is subjective, all i can say is i love my Engl. Was in the repair shop one time but it was related to beer being spilled on it during a show by an idiot sound guy. Other than that, great amp and great sound.
     
  3. sevenstringj

    sevenstringj Banned

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    Any American who says "whilst" isn't worthy of an Engl.
     
  4. Sepultorture

    Sepultorture Murder Machine

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    can't speak for the blackmore, and i've only tried the savage once

    bu the fireball (100watt version atleast) i've played with extensively

    now if you like the 6505 (not plus version mind) then this will def go in that ball park

    it's thick, can get very saturated with the gain knob, but retain note clarity and definition. like the 6505 it has a shared EQ so if yo want to switch between channels yer kinda buggered, but if you are after a single high gain tone, it's fantastic.

    the low end isn't crazy, but it's definitely has a tonne of useable bottom end, yet also tight, very much a chugging machine if need be, it's also a lower mid ranged amp, which means it will be kinda dark sounding, and will def get you that chainsaw sound aswell (but not tinny sounding)

    now in the end i stuck with the 6505 cus it's cheaper and i like the sounds of it with a boost up front and the KT88/6L6 combo in the power section. the Fireball won't need a boost, at all, in fact adding one won't really do much of anything other than add noise, it doesn't tighten anything and the amp really doesn't need it.

    any other questions feel free to ask

    oh and even though it comes with a gate knob on the back, i'd still use a decimator out front with the knob, or alone with the amps gate turned off
     
  5. xzyryabx

    xzyryabx SS.org Regular

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    Engls are great amps.
    But rememember tone is subjective, so if possible try before you buy.
    Only draw back I've ever had with my engls has been piss-poor support.
     
  6. MrPowers

    MrPowers SS.org Regular

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    Smooth highs and highly saturated with balls is almost exactly the description I would give of my Engl Victor Smolski.

    Since the Smolski is based on a Powerball and the Powerball and Fireball are somewhat similar, I'd give the Fireball a try if you can.
     
  7. cGoEcYk

    cGoEcYk SS.org Regular

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    I've really enjoyed the samples of the Savage that I've heard.

    I caught a band with one guitarist on a Recto through a Mesa cab and the other on an ENGL (couldnt tell which- "fence" looking grille and two rows of knobs) through an ENGL cab. Both 4x12's, genre was a thrashy Machine Head style. The ENGL didnt astound me in the mix. You could barely hear the ENGL solos and rhythm tone wasnt quite as present in the mix. Could have been user error but I have heard about struggles in the mix vs other amps and this was the first time I've experienced an ENGL being used on stage.
     
  8. DavidLopezJr

    DavidLopezJr SS.org Regular

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    ENGL is known for making amps (not all of their) that don't cut through the mix. They have some that can but really look into this stuff before you decide.
     
  9. Sumsar

    Sumsar SS.org Regular

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    I own a powerball (mark I) and I love it, it does exactly what i want is to do, and cuts though anything .. the thing is that in my experience engl amps in general are hard to dial in, there is sweetspots but you have to find them (I guess this is because most Engl amps has tons of tone swicthes) But when you find them! you are in heaven. I suspect that people talking shit about engls is because they dont know how to dial it in - there is nothing wrong with the amps :)

    But taste is very subjective, and it also depends on what you want to do with it? It suits my needs for a black / death metal tone on a 7 string, but in my experience, most people are not looking for that kind of tone :lol:

    About the amps (as far as I know):

    Blackmore: more of a rock amp than a metal amp, shared EQ, 2 channels, not a ton of gain.

    Fireball: Pretty much a one trick pony: Tons and tons of gain. The clean channel should be pretty good (better than a 6505 at least). 2 channels, not super expencive, from what I hear you do NOT want to buy the 60w version but the 100w.

    Savage: Abit like a powerball but with very different voicing: 4 channels and tons of voicing options, kinda swiss army knife, can do a lot of things, and do them pretty good I hear. Anything from crystal clean to BRUTALLZs metal!
     
  10. yingmin

    yingmin Parker ├╝ber alles

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    I will never understand why people say this. Having played on a couple Blackmores, I would say that they have more than enough gain. My friend plays progressive black metal on his Blackmore, and he keeps his gain around 2 or 3. When people ask whether or not an amp has "enough gain", I so often feel like the question they're really asking is "does this amp have way too much gain?".
     
  11. protest

    protest SS.org Regular

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    You just described the Rhodes/KSR tone. Maybe check out the Orthos/Ares. They should be in the same price range as the Engl's, but you'd have to wait a few months to get one because Kyle builds in runs.
     
  12. 155

    155 SS.org Regular

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    try before you buy..I couldnt hear my fireball 100 in a mix ...and the mids were not scooped I love the mid rip of 5150s ..the tone alone is great but be aware it can happen...
     
  13. Enselmis

    Enselmis SS.org Regular

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    Sounds like you want an Invader. Beefy, pissed off yet versatile Engl that sits perfectly in a mix.
     
  14. WhiteWalls

    WhiteWalls SS.org Regular

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    The Invader is one of those "ultimate metal amps" that will do anything you want it to do. I consider the savage the one that can get the closest to the Invader (with less options obviously) in the lower budget range.

    I'd personally stay away from the -ball amps: great for stuff like tech death where you need extreme note definition but they don't have the right low mids for the big chords and palm mutes. If both guitarists use them I think it's fine, but they have a hard time not getting drowned by other brands of amps.

    Anyway, I found that higher-end Engls have a certain distinctive tone, while cheaper ones are more anonymous and flat. This song is a great example of the territory an Engl Savage/Invader can get you to:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbb1SykDOmY
     
  15. JeffHenneman

    JeffHenneman SS.org Regular

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    I have an ENGL savage and I was pretty amazed with the clean channel. It is very good. If you need a clean channel then the savage will deliver.
    When it come for the distorted sounds, the ENGL will deliver easily.
    The Savage is such and underated amp. Don't worry about it not cutting thru in the mix, Spend some time with it and you will realize it cuts thru easily.
     
  16. Casper777

    Casper777 Slow Player

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    I own a SE670 6L6 and a Smolski...

    ENGL are great amps for sure... But right they are difficult to dial in (especially the SE). The Smolski is much smoother and round sounding th SE is more modern but it's so versatile you really can have any sound you want... But it is generally a brighter amp than the Smolski...

    Grain is particular try one first... I still keep going back and forth between ENGL and H&K ;)
     
  17. Sumsar

    Sumsar SS.org Regular

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    About the "talk me out of buying an Engl", well as far as I know Engl amps are a lot more expensive overseas than in EU (they are german made). Many people in europe buy them because they are an awesome bang for the buck, but for you it may not be so, and I guess you can get many american made amps for the same price or cheaper.

    On the "blackmore does not enough gain" it is just what I have heard / read on the internets, and if it is anything like my E530 Engl preamp, then there is something about the statement with the gain .. it does have alot of gain, but not deathmetal enough gain :p
     
  18. Mklane

    Mklane SS.org Regular

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    I have owned four different Engl amps. Fireball 60 and 100 ( completely different amps), Savage 120, and the Blackmore. I still have the Blackmore and don't plan on getting rid of it. I'll leave out the FB 60 since its discontinued and just not that great of an amp. I did really like the FB100, it bled a dark metal attack that sounded killer and I did find it to get lost in the mix with a two guitar band. Now the Savage, I seem to be one of the only guys in existence that doesnt think the Savage amazing. I did love the tones I could get out of it and it is quite versatile but IMO the Blackmore blows it away! Now keep in mind I pretty much only play metal and currently in a death/grind band so I dont need the extra channels and options. I could get the Savage to cut but usually have to almost dime the volume. The Blackmore is waaaay louder and cuts like a knife, the Savage120 is not 120 watts it uses two 6l6 power tubes the Blackmore uses 4 and has at least as much gain on tap. Tone wise the high gain is nearly identical. I had them both at the same time and kept the Blackmore, if you dont need all the bells and whistles the Blackmore is worth a try and they go for under a grand used often.
     
  19. SandyRavage

    SandyRavage SS.org Regular

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    Briefly owned a powerball, and savage, and got to spend some time with an invader, I remember liking the powerball 2 quite a bit, as well as the savage, but never really got on well with the invader. There are some fantastic tones in all three of them, but all three sold and were returned as I really prefer the tone of mesa and peavey.

    This is totally based on my ears, and there days I plug into the same rig and can't get it to sound like I want for the life of me. For what it's worth I thought the savage was the best of the bunch and seemed to sit well in a mix, and had better cut in band practice, as well as that unique gain structure I think of when I think of Engl.

    Either way you can't go wrong they are cool amps, I just must be a bit more traditional.
     
  20. 155

    155 SS.org Regular

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    get a marshall dude...
     

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