Engl SE?? Feel...?

Discussion in 'Gear & Equipment' started by gnoll, Dec 28, 2018.

  1. gnoll

    gnoll SS.org Regular

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    So I have an Engl 580 preamp and I have some problems getting along with it. It has this stiff percussive feel to the palm mutes, like it responds too quickly or something. I hit the strings and it just kinda goes "thunk". When listening to clips of the Savage and Blackmore they seem to be similar in this manner. My 5150 is much more satisfying to chug on. It feels much more squishy and the notes go more like "choiinnggg". It's the same thing when the 5150 is tightened up a lot up front, there's something about it that makes the palm mutes much more satisfying compared to the Engl.

    So now I have some questions for you guys:

    1) Does anyone understand what I'm talking about and have an explanation for this phenomenon? Like, tech wise, what is behind this annoying stiff feeling of the Engl?

    2) I'm now thinking maybe I have the wrong Engl. I've always liked what I've heard of the Engl SE, and that one doesn't (from what I can hear in clips) seem to have this stiffness to it, or at least not as much. So for people who've played the SE, how is it compared to other Engls, and also compared to other amps like 5150's? Does it have this stiff feel to it??
     
  2. OliOliver

    OliOliver SS.org Regular

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    I've got the ENGL Invader and I get the same result. I've owned four ENGLs and they've all been heavily compressed. To sustain my chugs I need to have my palm practically on the bridge rather than the strings. I don't know if it's a strong low end cut off or due to the compression, but I know exactly what you mean.

    As for a different ENGL, the Fireball is as close to 5150/6505 I've ever played. I got rid of it because it was too saturated and also heavily scooped. The Invader is less saturated and more mid-y but still pretty scooped and compressed. The famous CH3 is quite chainsaw-y and CH2 and 4 I struggle to find use for. The clean is passable.

    I'd recommend branching out to different brands. I get the allure, especially being within Europe like yourself. Personally I have used ENGLs almost exclusively for the past 3 or 4 years, but I'm finding myself wanting something looser these days.
     
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  3. Thrashman

    Thrashman Got Groove?

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    Like my friend above me mentioned, move your hand off the bridge a bit to let the strings breathe and you should get some nice results. ENGL amps are super compressed.
     
  4. gnoll

    gnoll SS.org Regular

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    Well, that doesn't cut it for me. Yes, I can do that and the notes will bloom out more that's not really what I want. Like, it doesn't solve the issue, the feel of the amp is still what it is.
     
  5. oneblackened

    oneblackened Tube Amp Dork

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    It's how it generates distortion, basically. Engls aren't doing any sort of clever tricks for the overdrive stages - they're just brute forcing clipping by overloading the tubes. It also has to do with filtering, because Engl filters low end very heavily between stages.
     
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  6. makecamera

    makecamera SS.org Regular

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    Are you running it through a poweramp? Sounds like the issue could potentially be remedied by increasing poweramp resonance.
     
  7. gnoll

    gnoll SS.org Regular

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    I run it through the 5150 power section, resonance maxed... it's definately to do with the preamp.
     
  8. JohnIce

    JohnIce Singlecoil Enthusiast

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    This is off-topic on my part, but you really hit the nail on the head on why I don't like re-amping.
     
  9. KailM

    KailM SS.org Regular

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    The problem is you're comparing your Engl to the mack-daddy of all chugging amps. :lol:

    FWIW though, I've played a Retro Tube 100 and a Powerball II and got some pretty good chugs out of both of them.
     
  10. Boris_VTR

    Boris_VTR SS.org Regular

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    I have created some quick palm mutting sounds from ENGL Savage 120 so I'll send you link via PM.

    Maybe share your sounds so we get better idea of the issue?

    Never had or heard any issues of chugging from engl amps.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  11. Shask

    Shask SS.org Regular

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    I have not played a real ENGL in person, but it sounds like why I have not bonded with VHT/Freyette amps. The low end just kind of goes "thud" instead of "chug" Everything is too quick and stiff. Typically this is mostly because of a high amount of power supply filtering. The power supply reacts immediately instead of taking a bit of time to recover, which is what causes the chug bloom sound. If you also filter a lot of bass out of the preamp gain stages, you get even less chug and a tighter sound.

    I have not liked ENGL models on modelers for the same reason even though I have not played a real one.
     
  12. jllozano

    jllozano SS.org Regular

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    how about substituting the tubes for lower gain variants? 5751 might work, and even ecc803s sound great and compress a bit less to my ears
     
  13. narad

    narad Progressive metal and politics

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    You get more chuggy-sagginess if you boost in front of it. The built-in boost circuits don't really accomplish this.

    EDIT: ah, I thought from the title that you were referring to the 570 pre. I feel like the SE kind of supersedes the fireball/powerball/savage, then maybe the 4 of the big Engls worth owning I'd say the spectrum is like Savage SE / SE 6L6 / SE-El34 / Morse / Invader, along the increasingly saggy less-crunchy spectrum.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  14. wakjob

    wakjob SS.org Regular

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    You want better chugs, try a Savage...
    or an old Mesa Mark III.
     
  15. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    This is a great suggestion. :agreed:
     
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  16. budda

    budda Guiterrorizer Contributor

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    Just use the 5150 :yesway:
     
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  17. gnoll

    gnoll SS.org Regular

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    Cheers for all the replies.

    Hm, so lower gain tubes you say...? Do you guys have recommendations for specific ones to check out? For 12ax7's I usually like Sovtek LPS and Electro Harmonix. Tung Sol is alright. Chinese are okay I guess but I don't like them as much. JJ's I do not like, they are too dark for my tastes. I like tubes that are clear and bright but still full sounding.
     
  18. TheWarAgainstTime

    TheWarAgainstTime "TWAT" for short

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    I'm not normally a fan of JJ 12AX7 tubes in most amps, but I do enjoy the JJ 5751 tubes I have in various spots in a few of my amps, including a 5150 and Ultra Lead
     
  19. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    I'd probably start out with some 5751 and 12AT7 tubes first. They're lower gain than 12AX7, but not ridiculously so.

    Sovtek and Tung-Sol make some affordable (between $10 and $25) 5751 options that are solid. As for the 12AT7, my go-to has been EH or JJ, I know you're not into the JJ 12AX7, but I'd still recommend their version of the AT.

    You really can't go by brand here.
     
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  20. The906

    The906 lifetime novice Contributor

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    Interesting. What is your fave 12ax7 brand? I really need to get some 5751s too.
     

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