Does location of a pickup relative to the bridge matter?

[Wynseun]

I just bought a 2007 Schecter Hellraiser and noticed that the earlier version (prior to 2008-ish) had the pickups much closer together than the later version. The bridge pickup appears to be routed further away from the bridge by about half an inch or so by the looks of it on the older version.

For PRS custom 22 vs custom 24 or LTD Eclipse vs ESP Eclispe it's due to the 22 vs 24 fret at the same scale length, but with Schecter the scale length is the same (25.5).

Is this something that can potentially cause tonal differences and why on earth would Schecter change this after a few years to begin with?

 

[Lorcan Ward]

It does. Closer to the bridge cuts bass and increases highs while increasing tightness/attack. Moving towards the neck introduces more bass, cuts treble, reduces attack but increases overall output.

The simplest way to understand the difference is playing something on the bridge and then on the neck and listen to the differences. If you want to delve further then tonematch one to the other to see the EQ curve.

much like neck shapes and other measurements companies will change things up every so often.

 

[USMarine75]

A lot.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

Definitely matters ime, moreso with multiscales than straight scales though.
Like Lorcan said, shifting the pickup routs forward changes the sound with bass getting thicker and treble generally softening. The trend goes the opposite as you get closer to the bridge itself (bass gets leaner, treble gets sharper).
It's partially why strats and teles have angled pickup routs.

 

[CanserDYI]

This is the reason many people don't like 24 fret strats as it moves the neck pup closer to the bridge.

 

[USMarine75]

This is the reason many people don't like 24 fret strats as it moves the neck pup closer to the bridge.

Yup. EVH and Satriani were big proponents of no more than 22 frets on their guitars (until recently).

 

[Wynseun]

It does. Closer to the bridge cuts bass and increases highs while increasing tightness/attack. Moving towards the neck introduces more bass, cuts treble, reduces attack but increases overall output.

The simplest way to understand the difference is playing something on the bridge and then on the neck and listen to the differences. If you want to delve further then tonematch one to the other to see the EQ curve.

much like neck shapes and other measurements companies will change things up every so often.

So all things considered, the older Hellraisers with the bridge pickup closer to the neck should sound slightly warmer and less trebly compared to the newer Hellraiser where they scooted the bridge pickup back a hair?

 

[Lorcan Ward]

So all things considered, the older Hellraisers with the bridge pickup closer to the neck should sound slightly warmer and less trebly compared to the newer Hellraiser where they scooted the bridge pickup back a hair?

On paper yes but you still need to account for all the other variables like wood, Bridge, scale length and intonation positions.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Yup. EVH and Satriani were big proponents of no more than 22 frets on their guitars (until recently).

And I believe Satch jumped through some design hoops to use 24-fret guitars as well. Narrow-sized humbucker + shaving off the end of the neck so there's almost no fretboard overhang.

 

[Choop]

why on earth would Schecter change this after a few years to begin with?

They probably did it to facilitate players downtuning more and more, so that they retain attack and clarity. Also the rise of the djent sound might have influenced the decision to some degree.

 

[USMarine75]

And I believe Satch jumped through some design hoops to use 24-fret guitars as well. Narrow-sized humbucker + shaving off the end of the neck so there's almost no fretboard overhang.

Yup. Only took him 40 years lol.

 

[Adieu]

Yes

A classic Leo Fender strat had 3 identical pickups, and as we all know, the positions sounded WAY different. All because of placement.

I'm pretty sure even the armchair warriors of the internet cannot debate the validity of this statement.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

I just bought a 2007 Schecter Hellraiser and noticed that the earlier version (prior to 2008-ish) had the pickups much closer together than the later version. The bridge pickup appears to be routed further away from the bridge by about half an inch or so by the looks of it on the older version.

For PRS custom 22 vs custom 24 or LTD Eclipse vs ESP Eclispe it's due to the 22 vs 24 fret at the same scale length, but with Schecter the scale length is the same (25.5).

Is this something that can potentially cause tonal differences and why on earth would Schecter change this after a few years to begin with?

They probably did it to facilitate players downtuning more and more, so that they retain attack and clarity. Also the rise of the djent sound might have influenced the decision to some degree.

Yeah Choop's right, but IIRC it was Keith Merrow that had a hand in it. Not only did he release a sig model, but he also claims he had a hand consulting with some tweaks for the overall lineup and whatnot. One of the tweaks came from his KM7, where he requested the bridge pickup be closer to the bridge. You start to notice the change ~2014, when the bridge pickup started to move closer to the bridge.

EDIT: Also from what I remember, one of the earlier prototypes had an even CLOSER placement to the bridge, but Keith had it changed because it was too harsh sounding. Can't find a pic, but it was a fraction of an inch closer than the release model.

 

[Wynseun]

C

Yeah Choop's right, but IIRC it was Keith Merrow that had a hand in it. Not only did he release a sig model, but he also claims he had a hand consulting with some tweaks for the overall lineup and whatnot. One of the tweaks came from his KM7, where he requested the bridge pickup be closer to the bridge. You start to notice the change ~2014, when the bridge pickup started to move closer to the bridge.

EDIT: Also from what I remember, one of the earlier prototypes had an even CLOSER placement to the bridge, but Keith had it changed because it was too harsh sounding. Can't find a pic, but it was a fraction of an inch closer than the release model.

Cool info. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

It makes a huge difference.

Agile left space between the bridge pickup and the bridge on the first runs of their AL baritones. They moved the bridge without moving the pickup when the scale length was changed. This was fixed in later runs.

It was impossible not to notice the difference, especially if you have another guitar with a properly spaced bridge PU to compare. Lost tons of attack, sounded like mud. I played my AL2000 for years but fought this one aspect of it the entire time.

I was playing in a doomy post rock band, it's not like I was after an ultra-clear tone, and it still caused me serious annoyance. The only time it didn't matter was when I played by myself.

 

[Dayn]

I'll pile on with all the 'yes', but I'll also add that it's not worth worrying about if the difference is only small. At that scale, moving your saddle for intonation would affect the tone just as much.

Only worry if it looks particularly egregious, eg, straight pickups on a wide multiscale.

 

[gunch]

So is that a problem with multiscale 6er Bodens? On the bass side the pickup is kind of far away from the bridge.

 

[ZXIIIT]

This modded tele has that issue, it could probably be matched up with a low treble pickup though.


Factory scaping


I remember passing on an Ibanez RGD7321 because of the weird looking bridge pickup spacing.

 

[maximummetal288]

Makes a huge difference in my experience. I had two different LTD SC-607B's, a black one from 2007 and a natural finish one from 2004. On the black one the bridge pickup was pretty far away from the actual bridge and the tone was really bassy, while the natural finish one sounded really nice and tight. The pickup being that far from the bridge looks goofy too, but now it's something I lookout for when buying a guitar. The E-II Horizon NT-7B with the tune-o-matic has the same issue, but thankfully ESP moved the pickup closer to the bridge when they switched to the hipshot bridge and passive routes.

 

[Estilo]

I just bought a 2007 Schecter Hellraiser and noticed that the earlier version (prior to 2008-ish) had the pickups much closer together than the later version. The bridge pickup appears to be routed further away from the bridge by about half an inch or so by the looks of it on the older version.

For PRS custom 22 vs custom 24 or LTD Eclipse vs ESP Eclispe it's due to the 22 vs 24 fret at the same scale length, but with Schecter the scale length is the same (25.5).

Is this something that can potentially cause tonal differences and why on earth would Schecter change this after a few years to begin with?

I think the correct hierarchy goes:

1. Decide on scale length
2. Divide said scale length by half and mark that for the 12th fret.
3. Double point 2 above to mark where the bridge is and let bridge appointments account for intonation.
4. Route for pickup placement. Where the sweet spots is probably highly subjective.

The bridge pickup distance from the bridge is impertinent and matters over how close spaced bridge and neck pickups are from one another. With the rise in longer scale lengths it's unfortunate that producers have not bothered resetting the bridge pickup position, effectively giving us middle and neck pickups with no bridge pickup in extreme cases.