Legion
Slightly cynical, mostly okay, completely drunk.
Does a Yamaha THR head count?
Do you own an FX processor / Modeler?
- Thread starter GoldDragon
- Start date
Empryrean
Constantly Gassing
had to change my vote cause I just picked up a mooer ge150! Gotta say, it's better than I expected. I don't have a real rig nowadays so most of my playing is satisfied by an evh 5150III distortion in front of my yamaha thr10c but besides being kind of a pain to take out my daisychain only to power 1 pedal it only sounded about as good as the preset impulses on the yamaha which isnt bad but definitely not for the level of gain I was throwing at the poor thing. I'm genuinely surprised by the level of uh.. I'd call it squish with some of the high gain models on this little thing. I still like my yamaha better for the fender blues tones but the mooer aint too far off either! maybe one day I can go back to a real tube amp with a load box but for now it's dang nice!
Metropolis
SS.org Regular
Does it have power amp modeling? GE-250 has good amount of "squish" with them, I prefer EL34 or 6L6 with most amp models.
TheEmptyCell
Dingwall Player
I’m using a Zoom G1x Four but I’m transitioning to a pedal based setup with a Mooer Radar for cab sims.
It's amazing how far modelling has come. The low budget models of 2020 can easily compete with something like an Axe fx ultra or POD HD, which was the cream of the crop 10 years ago.
I wonder how the market will look 10 years from now. Though nearly sacriligious, I believe that tube amps will slowly die out. I imagine that modellers seem like a far better deal to the young, aspiring guitarist of tomorrow.
If I had to start learning guitar all over again tomorrow, I would definately pick a digital unit that would let me practice with headphones, doesnt take up a lot of space, and has all the amps and fx to let me play and discover different music.
When i started playing guitar, the end goal was always a tube amp, because that was the sound I heard on my favourite albums, and that's what experienced players and store salesmen told me was the way to go. Digital was almost considered a toy and not a real substitue for tube amps. Thankfully, the world isn't as black and white anymore
Of course, there will always be tube afficionados. But I think it will be like people who appreciate vinyl records, a very small segment compared to the millions using spotify and Itunes
I wonder how the market will look 10 years from now. Though nearly sacriligious, I believe that tube amps will slowly die out. I imagine that modellers seem like a far better deal to the young, aspiring guitarist of tomorrow.
If I had to start learning guitar all over again tomorrow, I would definately pick a digital unit that would let me practice with headphones, doesnt take up a lot of space, and has all the amps and fx to let me play and discover different music.
When i started playing guitar, the end goal was always a tube amp, because that was the sound I heard on my favourite albums, and that's what experienced players and store salesmen told me was the way to go. Digital was almost considered a toy and not a real substitue for tube amps. Thankfully, the world isn't as black and white anymore
Of course, there will always be tube afficionados. But I think it will be like people who appreciate vinyl records, a very small segment compared to the millions using spotify and Itunes
I've been saying this for a while now. Tube amps are becoming obsolete imo. Years ago, I owned a Spider II and some multi fx units from Digitech, Boss,.. and those things were nothing compared to real amps. These days I'd choose a digital modeler over a tube amp. There, I said it!It's amazing how far modelling has come. The low budget models of 2020 can easily compete with something like an Axe fx ultra or POD HD, which was the cream of the crop 10 years ago.
I wonder how the market will look 10 years from now. Though nearly sacriligious, I believe that tube amps will slowly die out. I imagine that modellers seem like a far better deal to the young, aspiring guitarist of tomorrow.
If I had to start learning guitar all over again tomorrow, I would definately pick a digital unit that would let me practice with headphones, doesnt take up a lot of space, and has all the amps and fx to let me play and discover different music.
Of course, there will always be tube afficionados. But I think it will be like people who appreciate vinyl records, a very small segment compared to the millions using spotify and Itunes
nickgray
SS.org Regular
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,222
- Reaction score
- 1,461
I doubt it. I think it's kinda like hardware synths - VSTs absolutely destroy them in terms of price/quality ratio, but people are still buying hardware, there's a pretty big resurgence of interest in hardware synths too nowadays. The issue with modelers is that you have 5 billion options and you kinda have to adopt a "producer" mentality when dealing with them. IRs especially give such a wide palette of tones and affect the tone in such a massive way, it's very easy to get drowned in possibilities. There are plenty of shitty demos of even Axe Fx on YouTube, for example, with common pitfalls like using tons of gain, too scooped, too much treble.
Yep, they're hard to beat in terms of price/quality and you have to factor in the convenience as well. I think a lot of it comes down to price, ultimately. Dunno, if I had tons of money, I'd get a reactive load and a Mark V and 6505 probably, plus a good cab, a couple of pedals, and one of those complex switching boards for channel and effect switching. All of that costs an arm and a leg though.
It's down to having custom IRs, imo. With good IRs, even old LePou VSTs will sound good.
Empryrean
Constantly Gassing
I haven't really taken a deep dive into the customization just yet but from what I've seen using the desktop editor and a preset i downloaded, it looks like I can change the tube section for some IRs
Digital was supposed to kill tube amps 35 years ago and it hasn't yet. Granted the internet has helped digital thrive, but I think it's helped analog too.
It's good to have options. Would I go tube amp again? If things called for it and I had the cash, sure. But I dont see that as likely as buying another powered FRFR or two for the full 412 effect.
It's good to have options. Would I go tube amp again? If things called for it and I had the cash, sure. But I dont see that as likely as buying another powered FRFR or two for the full 412 effect.
I assume youre exaggerating with the 35 years claim. Of course digital wasnt mature enough to emulate a tube amp in 1986. Regular computers werent even a thing in households yet, let alone used dedicated for music. Heck. 1986 was so long ago that even classic ampsnlike the 5150, dual rec and Mark IV werent even built yet!
However in the last 10 years digital has been more and more accepted as a substitue for tube amps. But a lot of guitar players already own expensive tube amps, swear by them, and will not make the switch to digital because what they have works for them, and is their sound.
But over the coming years more and more new guitarists will pick up digital gear as the first purchase, and never aquire tube gear, since there is little to gain. And thus I believe we will see less and less people using tube amps. Like I said. Tube players will be like vinyl record players. They will love the oldschool vibe of tube amps, but to 90% of the market. Digital will be the way to go. Because it's cheaper, much more flexible and has a lot of added benefits like easy recording etc.
I'm already experiencing a drastic fall in tube amp sales in my home country. The expensive amps are on sale for months, while Kempers, Axe-fx and Helixes sell wothin days.
Last edited:
It's from wikipedia, but hey:
"TC Electronic was founded by two musician brothers, Kim and John Rishøj. Their SCF, ("Stereo Chorus + Pitch Modulator & Flanger") was a successful early product.[1] After initial success with guitar effect pedals, they developed 19" rack mounted processors, including the TC2290 delay released in 1985."
I think it will be more a case of does the new player know classic rock type players, or prog/djent players as they come up. That will form their views on gear early and with drastic effect
.
GoldDragon
SS.org Regular
Fender has some new modeling combo amps that are fooling purists. They don't look like modelers, just like traditional amps, but the whole preamp section is digital.
My experience is that the preamp circuits in a tube amp can be replaced with dsp, credibly. The behavior of the power tubes may not currently be identical to DSP and SS amp. But it could be. Or even better.
The point of solid state amps is to build them to a price point. If digital amps become 100% mainstream and accepted, then companies will be developing better versions of SS amps. Remember the waza head? Basically, that is the amp of the future.
Furthermore, the price of dsp comes down, and they can make digital solutions cheaper and cheaper. It doesn't look good for tube amps. IOW, I'm confident that a dsp/tube amp can be built that would fool me that it isn't tube, has more punch and headroom (if desired) than tube, but can have tube saturation at any volume level. And that is reliable and doesn't require tube swaps.
It more about economics and adoption. The technology is here already.
Only modeler I've ever kept was an old cheap POD X3 bean I got off of the Guitar Center used section
Big Bottom and Piezacoustic 2 will forever be two of the best simulated amp models
Though I would love to own an Axe FX 2/3, it's just too much to justify when I already love the tones I get out of Overloud TH3/THU
Big Bottom and Piezacoustic 2 will forever be two of the best simulated amp models
Though I would love to own an Axe FX 2/3, it's just too much to justify when I already love the tones I get out of Overloud TH3/THU
nickgray
SS.org Regular
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,222
- Reaction score
- 1,461
Worth remembering Death and Pantera, I reckon there were plenty of other SS users too (Jazz Chorus was a notable popular amp as well outside of metal).
Also worth remembering that when the first Axe Fx came out, plenty were swearing that it's just like the real amp. Then the Axe Fx 2 came out, and people were swearing that now it's for sure just like the real amp. And you see this mentioned every couple of firmware upgrades, up to current Axe Fx 3, which is supposed to be "just like the real amp", but for real this time.
I wonder just how much of it all relies on countless forum posts over the years continually saying that tubes are so much objectively superior than everything else, you shouldn't even so much as think about using anything else than a tube amp.
Haha that might
Regarding TC, I know them very well, they started out less than an hour from where I live But they have almost primarily been doing digital effect's. But digital units, whos sole purpose was to replace tube amps, I don' t think anyone was doing at that point in time. I guess Line 6 was the first company to be truly succesful with digital modelling, but thats was first in the late 90's
Haha that might very well beIt's from wikipedia, but hey:
"TC Electronic was founded by two musician brothers, Kim and John Rishøj. Their SCF, ("Stereo Chorus + Pitch Modulator & Flanger") was a successful early product.[1] After initial success with guitar effect pedals, they developed 19" rack mounted processors, including the TC2290 delay released in 1985."
I think it will be more a case of does the new player know classic rock type players, or prog/djent players as they come up. That will form their views on gear early and with drastic effect
Regarding TC, I know them very well, they started out less than an hour from where I live
But they have almost primarily been doing digital effect's. But digital units, whos sole purpose was to replace tube amps, I don' t think anyone was doing at that point in time. I guess Line 6 was the first company to be truly succesful with digital modelling, but thats was first in the late 90's
GoldDragon
SS.org Regular
Haha that might
I guess Line 6 was the first company to be truly succesful with digital modelling, but thats was first in the late 90's
Revisionist history. Boss was years ahead of Line6. 1996 They had the Gp100, which I owned and was the best at that time. Believe it or not, it had an editible FX chain with moveable S/R block, that line6 wouldn't emulate until the Helix. And there were serveral Boss iterations prior to the GP100. Some of them had an analog preamp section, so I'm not sure which was the first all digital.
Boss created the digital modeling market. (I believe Johnson/Millenium was the first all in one integrated amp.) Their products have always been designed to work with guitar amps and have been considered "Multi FX processors", but they had digital amp models. However, all of their MFX have always worked with +4/-10 and could be run in 4cm successfully, something Line6 didn't manage until the Helix.
[In fact, in the mid 90s, I was the one who termed the phrase "4 cable method" when I was describing on Harmony Central how I used the GP100 with my amp. I couldn't think on anything better to name it so I just referred to it as "4 cable method." Not to say I was the only person doing that, but I may have been one of the first *online* people to do it and describe it on the internet.]
The red bean POD that put line6 on the map was a desktop budget unit. However, even it wasn't a leader in that space. The Johnson J-station came before that (it was black and square) and many believed it to be better. I believe Johnson was a branch of Digitech.
Last edited:
Elric
SS.org Regular
I had a GP100 back in the day, replaced my Digitech GSP-5.
Those things were state of the art at the time. I could still rock one of those as an FX unit, easy. They ran for like a grand in 199X dollars. That would be like AxeFx money in today's market. The other amazing box from the early era for me was the Digitech 2101. It had a valve/analog pre but was really a spiritual predecessor to these modern units. Would love to mess with one of those now to compare. I only had one of those briefly but it was impressive for its time. Could cop any 80s/90s tone.
Last but not least: Rocktron. Pro-GAP, Chameleon, et al. Really neat devices.
Note the waveform in the ad, they are clearly thinking along the lines of modeling but in the analog realm, the one on the left is the preamp vs a Marshall and the other is it vs a Mesa.
Last edited:
