Do you guys have time to answer a short survey?

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by Nebularax, Aug 23, 2018.

  1. Nebularax

    Nebularax SS.org Regular

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  2. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    If I might provide some feedback - I find that this survey is sort of worded in ways that make it sound like you already have a conclusion and just want people to back that up. And it assumes a particular type of guitarist, who can't play drums and has no access to a drummer. Take your first question:

    Do you compose your drum-tracks based on what you've written for your guitar part(s) ? *
    Yes - I base the drum parts on my guitar parts
    No - The drum parts are quite distinct from the guitar parts in terms of rhythm

    There are an infinite number of ways to write a song, but you only give a choice of two, that are mostly the same as eachother. You'd started with the assumption that people write songs by coming up with guitar parts, then putting drums on top, which are either the same, or distinct rhythmically, whatever that means.

    I answered the survey, but I don't think this is going to provide you with anything useful.
     
  3. Nebularax

    Nebularax SS.org Regular

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    I provide free-text fields in order to counter-act that. As an amateur it's almost impossible to design a set of questions that don't have assumptions built into them. That's my failing totally. This really is the acorn of what could become a much larger tree. I've got ideas for sure, being a guitarist myself. I'm hoping that people will use this as an opportunity to not only tell me where my assumptions are wrong, but where their own ideas lie in contrast to mine.

    I'm specifically asking guitarist communities, so I don't think the assumption of "songs start with the guitar" is totally unwarranted or unfounded. But maybe I am wrong? Maybe most people on Seven String.org start with vocals or drums or soundscapes?

    But I totally appreciate the feedback!
     
  4. ThePhilosopher

    ThePhilosopher Reason User

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    Not only are the questions leading, but you're going to suffer from self-selection bias with your results. How to get reliable results from this design it's going to be just as hard as designing a decent set of survey questions.
     
  5. odibrom

    odibrom .

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    Done. Most of my replies were texted...
     
  6. JohnIce

    JohnIce Singlecoil Enthusiast

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    I answered to the best of my abilities, but the questions were kind of a mess. I can't really answer what I think of a drum software catering specifically to a guitarist's needs, because I'm pretty sure any musician who's not a drummer have identical drum needs... unless your idea is to create a drum software triggered by guitar frets or strumming patterns, I don't see how any drum software would benefit my needs more than a singer's needs or an oboe player's needs.
     
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  7. Nebularax

    Nebularax SS.org Regular

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    Honestly, from what I've seen in my 10 years in the music biz, musicians across the board have a wide variety of needs. But there are typical patterns I've seen. An oboe player typically has very different needs to a guitarist. That's because typically a guitarist is a writer, and an oboe player is a performer. Obviously there are outliers and people who don't fit this rule, but it generally holds true. Oboe players go into orchestra's to perform other people's written material. Guitarists in 2018 typically write for themselves or their bands.

    That's what I've seen anyway. Thanks all for the comments. This isn't meant to be ultra scientific, and I really appreciate the input! Once I get to the stage of actually having something concrete and relevant to talk about, you guys will be the first to hear about it!
     
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  8. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Don't take this the wrong way, but you asked for feedback, we gave you feedback, then you said "nah, your feedback doesn't match my experience." You've very clearly targeted the metal guitarist in his room playing over drum loops, but this is not representative of anything other than the narrow group you've already targeted.
     
  9. Nebularax

    Nebularax SS.org Regular

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    No worries I'm not taking it the wrong way. I don't even have a product yet, or a target demographic, or a company, or anything that you'd need to do anything remotely useful for people! lol! I'm completely open to whatever people say. My response about my experience was to a very specific comment someone made. Not to the thread as a whole. You're mischaracterising my response I feel.

    All I was saying is that it's not true to suggest that non-drummers all have the same set of problems. And me saying that is not me being defensive. It's based on a decade of working in the music-tech biz and observing the user-base over that time in various ways. I think that individuals have unique needs and the challenge for a lot of developers is breaking that down into some generalities in order to aid product development. No-one wants to build something that isn't going to be useful to you.

    If you guys want to tell me what your chief issues are when it comes to drums and you want to do it in the form of this forum post rather than an admittedly amateur and possibly restrictive survey form, I'm totally up for that too.
     
  10. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Then what are you researching exactly?
     
  11. JSanta

    JSanta SS.org Regular

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    I do a lot of research as part of my roles in academia, so I think I can help you a bit. When you create a survey, when trying to determine any type of validity, you can't predetermine the outcome for the participants. Your survey reads like you've already determined that there is a need for "the product/service" and the answers will in a way validate anecdotal information you've experienced throughout your life. The following link provides a decent baseline on how to get started on creating meaningful survey's: https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/references/how-to-design-a-survey

    A survey instrument is not an easy thing to just create, and I certainly give you credit for putting one together. Just remember to frame things in a way that don't reveal your inherent biases while still serving the purpose of your intended research. I understand that you're not trying to find statistical significance with your work, but just keep in mind that as a respondent, I shouldn't already know what the researcher wants the answers to be before I have completed the survey.
     
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  12. Nebularax

    Nebularax SS.org Regular

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    Thanks very much!

    Admittedly my survey probably does push my biases a bit. Some of the responses however (this isn't the only forum I put it on) have given me pause for thought - some people want things I hadn't considered. Interesting responses even though my survey does lean in a particular direction.

    BTW, when I say "my experience" I'm not really talking about anecdotal data. But NDA's prevent me from discussing that further.

    I'm currently reading through a book called "The Mom Test" so that will also help going forward.

    Anyway... as I say - I am interested in knowing what the issues you guys have are when it comes to putting drum-tracks together for your music.
     
  13. Nebularax

    Nebularax SS.org Regular

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    I want get some rough ideas of what the problems are for guitarists when it comes to putting drums into their music. Some people don't bother and leave it up to their bands drummer. Some people write every single note and expect their drummer to play it exactly. Some people write a rough moodboard and pass it to their drummer to interpret. Some people write the drums first, guitars second. Some people do it the other way round, etc.

    Right now, I know for sure how *I* work. I have some idea of how other people work, and I'd like to know more.
     
  14. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    I think you'd get better data from just strait up asking that question then. I say that because realistically, I don't think there are very many real "problems" in that sense currently, unless you dive into a particular person's existing approach. I know a couple of people, for example, who like to write music via just programming MIDI onto a staff, but get overwhelmed by the complexity of a full DAW that these tools tend to be embedded in. Arguably, the biggest "drum problem" I tend to encounter is just flaky drummers who don't show up for jams, don't contribute much, or ultimately quit - but that's a people problem, not a product problem.
     
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  15. MFB

    MFB Banned

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    You just sort of answered it by asking the question: the problem of putting in drums for a guitarist, is that we're not drummers
     
  16. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    ^ Speak for yourself. :lol:
     
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  17. Nebularax

    Nebularax SS.org Regular

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    I'm a drummer too, so I totally get where TedEH is coming from!
     
  18. Ordacleaphobia

    Ordacleaphobia Shameless Contrarian

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    I already put it on the form but I'll post it again here-

    I think the biggest 'problem' is ease of use. It feels to me that unless you happen to mesh with the current standard of slotting notes in via an on-screen MIDI keyboard, you're going to have a bad time. I greatly enjoy writing in GP6, I think it's an excellent piece of software and the visualization and control of the notes just 'clicks' with me an order of magnitude more than trying to stitch MIDI together in my DAW. I have not ever seen an interface like that designed for in-DAW usage, with samples on par with GGD/Slate/SD.

    I would throw piles of money at whoever creates such a plugin.
     
  19. JohnIce

    JohnIce Singlecoil Enthusiast

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    I think the problem in making a plugin like that is that I don't think a plugin can temporarily override the keyboard shortcuts of the host DAW. So if you want to be able to write drum parts by typing it out on a QWERTY keyboard within let's say Logic, chances are you'd just trigger a whole lot of Logic functions instead. I don't know if this is the same with Cubase, ProTools etc.

    Maybe it could work if you made a dedicated hardware unit that speaks only to the plugin through some sort of sysex message (I'm way out of my depth here :lol:). I think that's how Maschine works when it's used as a plugin.
     
  20. bhakan

    bhakan SS.org Regular

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    Why not play the drums in on a midi keyboard and then quantize? You could just tap in rhythms one kit piece at a time, quantize and then move to the next piece.


    On topic, I didn't fill out the survey because it felt so biased that I couldn't really add much useful. I actually feel the opposite as the survey implies. IMO there's plenty of relatively straightforward drum software, but if you want different articulations and to actually do anything more nuanced, Superior is pretty much the only option I know of. I personally feel there is much more need for nuanced drum software. As more people try to replace live recorded drums with software, you should at least be able to do it well if you decide to go that route.
     

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