Delay Set up to sound like two guitars!

Discussion in 'Beginners/FAQ' started by Gitte, Apr 28, 2017.

  1. Gitte

    Gitte SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    666
    Likes Received:
    100
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Hey guys,
    I have a preety noob question.
    I heard from some other guitar players that they have a delay set up so that, when there is just one guitar player in the band, it acutally sounds like two guitars playing.
    Do you know what the delay setting is for that?
    Thank you guys :)
    Seb
     
  2. domsch1988

    domsch1988 SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    536
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Location:
    Cologne
    The Idea is to have a delay set up with a really short delay time. Something sub 20ms. The exact setting is hard to say. If you move below 20ms strange stuff happens. A difference of 1ms can make or brake your sound. Just try lowering your delay times until you get the desired results.
    Also, use some kind of slapback setting, so only one delay. Maybe bring down the mix a bit too. This depends heavily on the exact delay you're using.
     
  3. Gitte

    Gitte SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    666
    Likes Received:
    100
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Thanks for the answer... where in the chain would you put that kind of delay?
     
  4. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

    Messages:
    8,357
    Likes Received:
    5,360
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Location:
    Gatineau, Quebec
    I think a missing bit of the conversation so far is the context this is being used it... is this live? A mix? I assume that the delayed signal is likely coming out of a second speaker somewhere. A short delay coming from the same place isn't going to sound like a second guitar. But putting a delay on a second cab (or in a mix, putting the original on one side and the delayed on the other) gives you stereo separation- the whole point is that the two sides aren't going to sound perfectly identical at any given time.

    I wouldn't say it "sounds like another guitarist", it just gives you some stereo separation.
     
  5. cmtd

    cmtd SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    419
    Likes Received:
    304
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2016
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Are you talking about something like Dimebag did?



    A good example is 3:26 in this video. I know he used an MXR flanger/doubler, I always assumed this was what he was using to get this sound? I would assume this could be done with a really short delay?

    No experience with it, but maybe the TC Electronics Mimiq could do the trick?
     
  6. Mvotre

    Mvotre SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    269
    Likes Received:
    43
    Joined:
    May 2, 2007
    Location:
    SP, Brazil
  7. Humbuck

    Humbuck Can't stop, won't stop

    Messages:
    1,189
    Likes Received:
    356
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Location:
    NYC
    I'd use 2 amps and a chorus pedal.
     
  8. cardinal

    cardinal F# Dive Bomber

    Messages:
    6,192
    Likes Received:
    4,019
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Something that was big in the '80s. The Eventide units could do it. Two delays, one maybe 20 ms and another 25 ms or so. Each delay would be detuned by a different amount (a few cents). And then you'd run wet/dry/wet with your amps.

    So you'd have one amp and cab with the undelayed, normal tone. Then something like a stereo power amp, each side with its own cabinet. And each side would have one of the two delayed signals.

    It makes for a huge, wall of monster guitar tone.
     
  9. Hollowway

    Hollowway Extended Ranger

    Messages:
    14,688
    Likes Received:
    8,154
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Location:
    California
    There's also the doubler pedal that will give that same sort of effect. Actually, a little more realistic, at that.
     
  10. thraxil

    thraxil cylon

    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    749
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Location:
    London
    The TC Electronic Mimiq pedal is designed specifically to do this kind of thing. Haven't tried one yet, but the demos online sound pretty good.
     
  11. wakjob

    wakjob SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    3,746
    Likes Received:
    808
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Location:
    C-137
    Yep. That one and the Keeley 30ms pedal will do the stereo detune thing.
     
  12. Bearitone

    Bearitone SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    5,113
    Likes Received:
    2,476
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    I believe the TC Mimiq, set to ONE overdub while using STEREO OUTPUTS to two separate amps is the only way to actually get the sound of two guitars while only using one.

    Theres a looonnnggg ass thread on this topic.
     
  13. CapnForsaggio

    CapnForsaggio Cap'n (general)

    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    25
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Location:
    Albany, OR
    Have one. Mimiq is the best thing you can use live, with 2 amps. It still isn't producing double tracks that are passable for recording... Too phasey.

    IMH(product using)O
     
  14. Rachmaninoff

    Rachmaninoff Amateur porn actor

    Messages:
    1,020
    Likes Received:
    93
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Location:
    Brazil
    Mostly, your tone will get phase cancellation, which is very unpleasant. It's a lot of trial-and-error until you hit the sweet spot.
     
  15. Bearitone

    Bearitone SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    5,113
    Likes Received:
    2,476
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Do you still get phase even with 1 overdub and stereo outs into separate amps and cabs?

    I'm dying to know without actually buying the mimiq.
     
  16. Webmaestro

    Webmaestro Ibanez Fanatic

    Messages:
    1,694
    Likes Received:
    492
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Location:
    Arizona
    Petrucci does this (using a delay to essentially create 2 slightly offset signals), and I know there are videos/interviews out there somewhere where he talks about it.
     
  17. CapnForsaggio

    CapnForsaggio Cap'n (general)

    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    25
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Location:
    Albany, OR
    I only use it in single voice mode (true stereo) to 2 amps. I even use it pre distortion, in the hopes that the waves will be more dissimilar...

    Here's what I can hear:

    1) It is randomizing the "attack" delay in a pleasant way.
    2) The randomized pitch shifting is OK. Listening to this isolated track, you can hear some odd tracking artifacts occassionally.
    3) The left and right channels have different "attack" moments, and slightly shifted pitch, and in summation (hearing L and R) you get moments where the "randomized" parameters sound pretty chorus-y.

    In short, I give it an A- for live usage, and a D- for tracking guitars to disk.
     
  18. TheWarAgainstTime

    TheWarAgainstTime "TWAT" for short

    Messages:
    8,857
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    As previously mentioned, Petrucci uses this effect live to thicken up his guitar signal to sound like two players.

    The basic setup for this is to have a stereo delay unit with a single delay repeat with a time between 7 and 20ms. One side of the unit is set to be completely dry while the other side is 100% set, that way everything you play is offset by whatever time the delay is set to.

    In my experience, it's an effect that gets the best result when you either run the delay unit in the FX loop of a single amp then run one side into the return like normal and the other side into a slave/power amp (what JP does) or with the outputs of the delay going into the front of two separate amps.

    I've experimented with this in my rig before, but ended up preferring to just use an ABY pedal that I can flip the phase/polarity and ground of the second amp with. I am currently using the Radial Twin City for this and the result is a super wide and awesome sound with my two amps
     

Share This Page