Confused on boosting a high gain amp.. (Marshall DSL100HR)

[Caca_Spaniel_123]

I've always used a boost with my Marshall because.. I was told so on the Internet. Jokes aside the DSL kinda sounds loose and flubby on classic gain 2 and OD1 anyways.

Then I really started to listen to some of my favorite songs and realized the guitar tracks don't seem that boosted. To me, at least. I really have no clue. Here is Jerry Cantrell doing a shootout of his signature Friedman. Its an amp demo so you'd expect no pedals in it, maybe thet JBE switch on the amp gives it enough push?

Mastodon's Brent Hinds is using a TS (two of them, actually. He leaves his 808 on permanently and kicks on a GTOD for leads) but High Road from Once More 'Round the Sun doesn't sound boosted to me.

Anyhoo I have trouble dialing in the tone I want with my gear.. the classic gain channel on my Marshall sounds nice and big but not compressed enough and too loose even with a boost in front. OD1 is the exact opposite, it already sounds compressed and kinda boosted so when I add a pedal it sounds a bi too.. much.

Am I wrong boosting my amp to get these types of tones or do I need another amp or something?

Theres nothing too crazy with the EQ settings- resonance at 12:30, presence at 11:00, bass 2:00, mids 1:00, treble at noon. Dialing down the bass doesn't seem to tighten up the tone for this amp.. it just becomes thinner which I don't like.

For my boost I use a Friedman Golden Pearl which is a "clean" boost with different clipping options- straightup clean boost, LED clipping and diode clipping for a harder feel. The LED clipping option is the perfect balance between fat and punchy so thats where I leave it. My guitar is a PRS SC250 with the stock #7 pickups. They are a tad hotter than a classic PAF but has a very mid focused nasal voicing which I'm ok with.

Thanks yall in advance.

 

[budda]

Use OD1 without a boost and dial it in differently?

 

[StevenC]

I would use a good bit less resonance on these amps. In my experience it's just a flub control. I'd also take the bass down a bit, given it's a Marshall.

Also, when people talk about boosting amps for metal they are typically not talking about clean boosts. They are talking about mid focused and bass cutting boosts, like Tubescreamers, with gain set to 0.

 

[Kosthrash]

For more tight gain, try to reduce the gain knob at 12-1 o clock, also with a ts or even better an od ( like the sd1 😉 ) in the front like booster and an eq pedal in the loop (for fine tuning), you'll be able to dial in most of the tones you're after.

 

[budda]

Also is this for a band or playing at home?

 

[TedEH]

I really started to listen to some of my favorite songs and realized the guitar tracks don't seem that boosted.

Recorded sounds and played-in-a-room sounds are contextually different, so I wouldn't expect to be able to tell if a sound was "boosted" by comparing a recording to what it feels like to play a boosted amp by yourself. Recording, IME, generally means lower gain and making adjustments to suit the whole song.

Keeping in mind as well that using a boost isn't always "for more gain", it's often about texture or the "feel" which might not come across in a recording. IMO don't fixate on what "the real sound" is made of, just do what works for you.

 

[McDefLau]

Also don`t forget about the cabinet and/or type of speakers you use. Makes a huge difference in how tight your sound is.

 

[budda]

Also don`t forget about the cabinet and/or type of speakers you use. Makes a huge difference in how tight your sound is.

Makes a huge difference period!

 

[Dr. Caligari]

Dialing down the bass doesn't seem to tighten up the tone for this amp.. it just becomes thinner which I don't like.

This is normal. Almost all amps have eqs placed after distortion, and then they're gonna act as you describe. Typically, to get a tight distortion sound you will need to cut bass before distortion. Many overdrive pedals do this but not the ones labeled transparent. Those are built to have a flat frequency response.

How you play also has a big impact on how tight palm mutes are. If you hit hard and choke down on the string you can starve the note of bass that way. I mostly play loose amps but my sound is still pretty tight because of how I play (and because I don't use a lot of gain).

 

[wakjob]

"Recorded guitar tones" are a whole other ball of wax. What do we think we're really hearing in there?

Close mic'd up speaker + all the studio processing and multi-tracking... it makes for a difficult comparison to say the least.

 

[Caca_Spaniel_123]

Also don`t forget about the cabinet and/or type of speakers you use. Makes a huge difference in how tight your sound is.

Makes a huge difference period!

1960a w/v30 & T75. Should be tight enough, the T75s gets drowned out by Vintage 30s

 

[Caca_Spaniel_123]

I would use a good bit less resonance on these amps. In my experience it's just a flub control. I'd also take the bass down a bit, given it's a Marshall.

Also, when people talk about boosting amps for metal they are typically not talking about clean boosts. They are talking about mid focused and bass cutting boosts, like Tubescreamers, with gain set to 0.

The Golden Pearl is designed to push amps so it does that bass cut mid push thing without adding dostortion of its own. It has a toggle that clips the signal harder and cuts more bass


Resonance.. I used to have it around 9 oclock. Didnt unflub the amp really

 

[Caca_Spaniel_123]

For more tight gain, try to reduce the gain knob at 12-1 o clock, also with a ts or even better an od ( like the sd1 😉 ) in the front like booster and an eq pedal in the loop (for fine tuning), you'll be able to dial in most of the tones you're after.

If I lower the gain even more from here my sound isn't saturated enough.. I cranked the level to hit the amp harder but it doesn't seem to saturate the way I want. It sounds like the amp is getting pushed too much and hitting a ceiling

This is the biggest gripe I have with my tone, it doesn't sound nice and fat at moderate gain levels. Way to lean (expected from a Marshall) but too compressed sounding.. I wish the crunch channel was a bit tighter since that sounds much bigger and bolder

 

[Caca_Spaniel_123]

Also is this for a band or playing at home?

home, but masters at 10 oclock. Not loud as a drummer but not bedroom level

 

[Caca_Spaniel_123]

Recorded sounds and played-in-a-room sounds are contextually different, so I wouldn't expect to be able to tell if a sound was "boosted" by comparing a recording to what it feels like to play a boosted amp by yourself. Recording, IME, generally means lower gain and making adjustments to suit the whole song.

Keeping in mind as well that using a boost isn't always "for more gain", it's often about texture or the "feel" which might not come across in a recording. IMO don't fixate on what "the real sound" is made of, just do what works for you.

Yeah I'm not trying to nail recorded tones, those are layered with EQ and compression so a single amp setup will never sound that nice. I just want my amp to sound a bit relaxed, thats about it. With a boost the sound is too exaggerated, without it its too loose. Its 90% there tho, I account this mainly on tje new PRS singlecut. F**k those Norlin era Les Pauls.. pos guitars

IMO with some tracks its quite apparant whether they used a pedal or not, TOOL sounds like guitar into amp, same with AIC. Metallica's self title or Trivium's lastest album sounds boosted to me, I dont think an amp on its own can have that kind of mid push and punch (camt be sure cuz I haven't played a mkii c+ or a 5150III) But all four has little distortion on then

Speaking of Alice In Chains, I always wondered how Jerry's tone has that nice saturation and mid growl that no matter what I do I can't reproduce. Jerry' tone just had that since BGWTB

 

[Caca_Spaniel_123]

This is normal. Almost all amps have eqs placed after distortion, and then they're gonna act as you describe. Typically, to get a tight distortion sound you will need to cut bass before distortion. Many overdrive pedals do this but not the ones labeled transparent. Those are built to have a flat frequency response.

How you play also has a big impact on how tight palm mutes are. If you hit hard and choke down on the string you can starve the note of bass that way. I mostly play loose amps but my sound is still pretty tight because of how I play (and because I don't use a lot of gain).

The Friedman OD is not flat response, its really good for pushing amps. Much better than a ts9 or a precision drive I used to have. I literally don't see a point of a flat clean boost tho, that cant be useful to anyone

Never thought about the palm mutes. Truth to be told I might be lowering my strap way too much for my height (5' 7, hate my genes) and my picking needs more precision. Gona addresa this asap and see if it makes my spund better. Thanks!

 

[TedEH]

Metallica's self title or Trivium's lastest album sounds boosted to me, I dont think an amp on its own can have that kind of mid push and punch (camt be sure cuz I haven't played a mkii c+ or a 5150III)

It's funny you say that, because a Mark with the mid slider and bass knob pretty much all the way down, played with any pointy guitar with EMGs is basically Metallica in a box, no boost required.
Which in itself is kind of a decent point in itself -> pickups being used are another part of that chain. To my ears, EMGs kinda sound like having a mild permanent boost.

 

[StevenC]

The Golden Pearl is designed to push amps so it does that bass cut mid push thing without adding dostortion of its own. It has a toggle that clips the signal harder and cuts more bass


Resonance.. I used to have it around 9 oclock. Didnt unflub the amp really

Uh, no. The Golden Pearl is not a clean boost as you said in the OP and it does add distortion on its own. Clipping is adding distortion, that's what that is. The Golden Pearl has a high cut which is quite antithetical to the idea of boosting metal amps. The Golden Pearl is not meant for boosting metal amps, it is meant for pushing lower gain small and vintage amps into edge of breakup and what metal guitarists would call low and mid gain tones.

The Resonance control low doesn't make the amp not flubby, it makes the amp less flubby and then you use a bass cutting pedal like a Tubescreamer to cut that flub further. Turn the bass up to stop it sounding thin.-

But like also, a DSL100 isn't a bad amp and with the gain high and humbuckers you should be able to get a very good at home metal tone without any pedals. The settings for OD1 on my JVM right now is like 9:00 bass, 1:30 mid, 2:30 treble, 9:00 resonance, 1:00 presence. And that's a very similar preamp and doesn't need a boost. You just hit the strings hard because it's metal.

 

[MatrixClaw]

I never had an issue with the amp sounding "flubby" on my DSL 50, 100 or 40C. I don't think I could get that amp to be flubby to save my life, especially through V30s. Have you tried a different guitar? That'd be my suggestion in this equation, maybe you're just playing a really dark guitar...

 

[budda]

Or dead strings. Or dull pick.