Carbon rods in a 7 string neck? Necessary or not?

Discussion in 'Luthiery, Modifications & Customizations' started by DistinguishedPapyrus, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. DistinguishedPapyrus

    DistinguishedPapyrus SS.org Regular

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    I'm currently working on my first completely scratch built 7 string and overly paranoid about long term bowing/twisting issues in the neck, here's a break down of the build: 5 piece laminate of quartersawn maple and wenge with a wenge fretboard all glued up with titebond III. It'' be thin, very similar to the Ibanez Wizard and have a one way aluminum truss rod... so in a build like this is it necessary to supplement with carbon fiber rods?

    Some pics of the neck so far...
     

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  2. Purelojik

    Purelojik SS.org Regular

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    from what i can see if its a three piece neck then its gonna be quite stiff. you could add the rods if you'd like but if you plan on goin wizard thin then you might just want small rods and nothing too deep. looks good btw
     
  3. DistinguishedPapyrus

    DistinguishedPapyrus SS.org Regular

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    Does Ibanez put carbon rods in their guitars? I've never seen the build process of their stuff...
     
  4. espman

    espman Is beardless....

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    They never used to, but they have started using a Titanium renforcement as of late.
     
  5. Navid

    Navid Chicken Kicker

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    Reinforcement rods are never necessary, but adding them does add stability.
    i wouldn't add them, they're expensive and laminate necks already are supposed to be more stable.
    If I had spare money I wouldn't buy carbon fiber rods but spend them on something I'll always be able to see, like abalone bindings
     
  6. will_shred

    will_shred Wannabe audio engineer

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    I was wondering this myself for a custom build. I was thinking 1 piece purple heart with Carbon fiber reinforcements. Or something like that. I have the same problem as OP and am probably overly paranoid about neck warping.
     
  7. DistinguishedPapyrus

    DistinguishedPapyrus SS.org Regular

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    Yeah, I'm just overly paranoid. There have been far more guitars built without carbon fiber than with, and many of them are still fine and kicking today. its not nearly as bad an issue in my case because it is a laminate neck instead of one piece. I'm not gonna use carbon fiber, I'll save the money to go towards the pickups. if the neck ever really warps that bad, I'll have the skill to build a new one...
     
  8. will_shred

    will_shred Wannabe audio engineer

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    agreed. It's hard to justify going that all out when old 59' Les Pauls which only have a one piece mahogany neck are still out there and more than fully playable
     
  9. Necromagnon

    Necromagnon SS.org Regular

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    If you have quarter sawn, and well dried wood, it won't move a micron. And with wenge renforcement, evenmore.

    But for will, maybe reinforcement rods could be usefull. 1 piece necks, if the piece is not perfectly dried and perfectly quartersawn, there's a risk of twist for the neck.
     
  10. will_shred

    will_shred Wannabe audio engineer

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    hm than maybe I'll try and do a 5 piece if I can.
     
  11. Necromagnon

    Necromagnon SS.org Regular

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    Some people do a multipiece neck, made of the same original piece. You just cut in 3 or 5, turn the middle piece so that they will work in opposition if they want to, and make your nake very stable. With a regular longitudinal grain wood, joints can be really invisible also.
     
  12. hairychris

    hairychris Hairy Old Bloke

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  13. skisgaar

    skisgaar Master-debatur

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    Why not just go all Vigier, and ditch the truss rod for a single carbon fibre rod? Shit is cash.
     
  14. Necromagnon

    Necromagnon SS.org Regular

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    Because if you've not been very very carefull on the humidity of your wood, of your room when you glued it, of the place where the neck and the whole guitar has been kept before finishing and even after, so that your neck bow back or forth just a very little bit, you're done for a new neck...

    I really enjoy the idea of Vigier (and evenmore it's work!) but they've got a really well controled process and pieces, that is hard to reproduce at home.

    Whoo! Nice repair! And nice use of carbon reinforcement, too.
     
  15. Sepultorture

    Sepultorture Murder Machine

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    with multi-laminate and a dual action truss rod, it will be good and stable.
     
  16. SirMyghin

    SirMyghin The Dirt Guy Contributor

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    I prefer the feel of a 1 piece neck over laminates most of the time, and even with a 1 piece reinforcement rods are by no means necessary.

    Guitar necks are these flimsy weak things we need to baby, and a guitar string barely adds any load. The trick is seasoned, well selected lumber will grant stability. Crap wood = crap neck. Guitar strings come nowhere near actually damaging a neck.
     
  17. Necromagnon

    Necromagnon SS.org Regular

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    Single action truss rod, or even just carbon fiber rod will do the same stuff. The only reason we use double action is that it goes both back and forth. No influence on stabilty at all.

    You fill the difference? o_O
    I guess it's because neck was badly done, cause if the joint are perfect (or almost) and the shape is correctly made, you normally cannot be able to feel the difference. Or is it in another way that you understand "feel the neck"?
    (no misplaced double sense here... :D )
     
  18. Sepultorture

    Sepultorture Murder Machine

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    if it bows back or forth you can make adjustments to bring it back in either direction, that's why i said dual action, and being able to compensate fr any bowing is maintainging stability, don't see what you meant by that.

    either way, either way, no real big issues should surface. unless left in a bad for wood environment
     
  19. Necromagnon

    Necromagnon SS.org Regular

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    I understand. I was saying that because it's not the way I understand stability. With a dual action, you can compensate lack of stability of the neck, i.e bow in both direction. My view of stability is that it won't bow.
    :cheers:
     
  20. rgk7

    rgk7 SS.org Regular

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    Hi there!
    I would really like to discuss this a bit more!
    Maybe somebody of you did some drawings of a trus rod?
    I'd like to compare some trus rods. cfk,titanium, aluminium or whatever.
    As I'm new to trus rods and building necks I need as much info as possible.For example:
    -Different scales/neck length - Different trus rods length.
    Is there any rule for calculating maybe ?
    -Where Do I need to place it exactly?
    -Where does it need to start and where to end?
    -Where and how is it mounted to?
    -Let me know where a trus rod made out of carbon could break or get damaged.
    -I don't care if you got 2/3DCAD drawings, pics or drawings done by hand.Just show me something please ir let me know where where where to get all I need to know please.
     

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