Canadian Politics

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by JSanta, Oct 22, 2019.

  1. JSanta

    JSanta SS.org Regular

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    With the recent federal elections, I thought it might be of value to create this thread to gain insights from people.

    I am a proud dual US/Canadian citizen, and I try my best to be an informed citizen even though I don't live in Canada anymore.

    I was reading an article this morning that linked to a "Wexit" FB group and some articles from CTV and the CBC regarding desire for the Prairies and Western Canada to separate from the rest of Canada. The election map, while not surprising given the most recent provincial elections, was completely Blue (for Americans, Blue is the colour of the Conservative party), with only one riding going NDP.

    With Trudeau now faced with forming a minority government, how do my fellow Canadians feel about what's going on in Canada?
     
  2. efiltsohg

    efiltsohg SS.org Regular

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    The conservative party would have had to win more seats than all the left wing parties put together for the results to practically be any different (and that's only if the CPC wasn't functionally identical to the liberal party, which they are)
     
  3. ImNotAhab

    ImNotAhab ChronicUnderachiever

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    I found deciding who to vote for a really tough call. I find Trudeau and Scheer are not endearing or likeable figures. Singh at least to me comes across "normal", or at least as normal a politician can be but the NDP platform rang hollow because we all knew they would never get a chance to deliver on it. Plus that pipe line sucks but it needs to be built.

    In the end my vote was mostly based on the local candidate and was not a personal endorsement of the party leader.

    As for the result, a minority government will be interesting if nothing else... I do not look forward to the eventual dissolution of Canada and getting caught in a war when the Republic of Sasberta invades British Columbia.
     
  4. budda

    budda Do not criticize as this Contributor

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    First past the post needs to go. Voters are not being properly represented, regardless of vote. That pisses me off.
     
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  5. JSanta

    JSanta SS.org Regular

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    The only reason I didn't vote NDP was because I didn't think they could push their platform forward at this time. I found (and find) Singh to be someone of good moral fiber, and I'm happy they will be a strong part of the government.

    With the very real unhappiness felt in the West with respects to another Liberal government, it will be very interesting to see how Trudeau leads. I like Trudeau, even with the controversies, and I have a difficult time supporting any Conservative candidate because of what's going on in the world right now. I feel like there needs to be a G7 that has members that haven't gone completely nationalistic.
     
  6. JSanta

    JSanta SS.org Regular

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    Radio Lab had a very interesting episode about that issue

    I was not very familiar with ranked voting until this great episode. I'd like to see the ranked voting system become more common.
     
  7. efiltsohg

    efiltsohg SS.org Regular

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    First election since 1867 that a party won with less than 35% popular vote. Remember when Trudeau said 2015 would be the last election here with first-past-the-post? Well he sure isn't going to change anything now lol
     
  8. JSanta

    JSanta SS.org Regular

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    Same thing happens in the States. Little incentive for the "winning" party to make changes if the system currently benefits them or their party.
     
  9. efiltsohg

    efiltsohg SS.org Regular

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    First of all it's not even close to the same thing, secondly the USA is a republic not a democracy
     
  10. JSanta

    JSanta SS.org Regular

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    It's EXACTLY the same way in the States - the winning party does not have a reason to change a system that has worked for them. There are also plenty of different locations in the States that use ranked voting, it's just not at a State or National level.

    The political systems between the US and Canada are very different, I am well aware of that. What is the same is that there's little incentive for officials to make sweeping changes to the way they are voted into office if that system worked to get them into office in the first place.
     
  11. sakeido

    sakeido Contributor

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    Whatever party is in power will change to a system that favors them. It also requires a referendum

    Cons want FTPT, Liberals want Ranked Ballot, NDP and Green want PR

    We've seen enough with what happens with parties changing electoral systems in the States (gerrymandered to shit to keep Republicans in power) or what happens when you put something to a referendum and let Dumbfuck Everyman have a direct say in government (Brexit, or BC deciding to pay the government $1.6 billion to repeal HST)

    Approval ratings of governments elected by proportional representation systems tend to equal to or lesser than Canadian governments voted in through first past the post, so its not even like it'll make people like government any better
     
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  12. zappatton2

    zappatton2 SS.org Regular

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    Well, I at least have a pretty free hand in voting for anyone, as my Vanier-Ottawa riding always, LITERALLY ALWAYS, swings Liberal, so I don't need to vote strategically, I could go Rhinoceros Party, or choose between the Communists or Marxist-Leninists (two actual parties that weirdly hate each other, while splitting like 10 votes per riding). The ballot is my oyster.

    Joking aside, I'm glad we didn't swing to the Cons, but it is unfortunate that the mid-West will absolutely see this as a slight at them and the oil and gas industry, and it could incite further populism this side of the border (not that the People's Party and Bloc weren't already making hay whipping up resentment against immigrants and vulnerable minorities).

    But let's be honest, at some point, we will have to decouple our economy from fossil fuels, which for a petro-state like Canada, is going to be more than a little difficult. And for Provinces that derive at least part of their identity in the fossil fuel game, I can't see this getting better before it gets much worse. But believe me, it is not a desire to see people lose their jobs or suffer economic hardship. I really don't know how Canada is going to make that transition, aside from the Trudeau method of talking out both sides of his mouth.
     
  13. TheKindred

    TheKindred TimeTravel Innovator

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    i'm seeing a lot of posts about western separation coming out of AB/SK that lump BC/AB/SK together as "The Western Republic of Canada", but i'm not sure that those two paid attention that BC has different priorities to them. Hell if you're talking separation, BC was the last to join the union b/c quite frankly they didn't really need to. It's a province/region that could essentially sustain itself.

    as opposed to Chretien speaking out of only one :lol:
     
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  14. oracles

    oracles Australian in Canada

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    So is Alberta though. And like it or not, Canada needs Alberta firing on all cylinders, and we havent been since late 2014. Alberta could sustain itself solely off the Fort McMurray region, and theres an incredible amount of misunderstanding and misinformation about that particular region and what actually happens here.
     
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  15. sakeido

    sakeido Contributor

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    Alberta is landlocked. Separatism without BC would be idiotic beyond belief - like we think we have market access issues now? We'd have them a thousand times worse after.

    Either we convince BC to come with us or we join the States, which would make me immediately move back into Canada by heading to Vancouver or the Okanagan or something. But the whole Wexit thing is just obnoxious... we stole that name from the five alarm tire fire over in Europe? what?
     
  16. efiltsohg

    efiltsohg SS.org Regular

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    There are many landlocked nations in the world, what a stupid argument
     
  17. sakeido

    sakeido Contributor

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    most countries aren't landlocked. The ones that are... Ethiopa, Uganda, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Nepal, Kazakhstan, Chad, Zimbabwe, Andorra? Vatican City? Pretty illustrious company we'd be in, huh. Literally no landlocked country is a serious oil producer.

    At least I have one. Go fuck yourself. Or do you have a brilliant plan where Alberta will somehow get pipelines built in the country they have just left? How will we manage all the carbon tariffs they would force us to pay? The province is not self sufficient and would go broke in a matter of years.
     
  18. JSanta

    JSanta SS.org Regular

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    I read an interesting article that had been published after the last election, and that was "republished" following this weeks results. One of the points made in the article (https://nationalpost.com/news/canad...he-dumbest-political-movement-in-canada-today) is that the developed landlocked nations have very different economies compared to Alberta, in that they deal in services and goods that are easily moved across borders. They are not transporting goods like livestock, and oil. The UN agreement certainly would stand, but that doesn't mean that ROC or the US would necessarily make it easy for them to broker new trade agreements.

    If Brexit is used as an example, they already exist as a country distinct from the EU, and I think that the difficulties they are experiencing would be amplified should a province try to leave Canada (I think the same thing could be said of Quebec honestly).

    Full disclosure, that website is right of center, and I typically don't link/read from sources that are left or right of center. The arguments were very interesting, and the comments were also very interesting, and have been growing every minute.
     
  19. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Every time elections come around, I'm reminded of how little I understand politics or people.
     
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  20. sakeido

    sakeido Contributor

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    Quebec leaving would probably be a disaster for them as well, but they control the St. Lawrence Seaway which is the access to the Atlantic from the Great Lakes so at least they can leverage that negotiate a good deal.
     

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