Brexit: what will it do to guitar prices in Britain?

Discussion in 'Standard Guitars' started by fps, Sep 11, 2020.

  1. Lozek

    Lozek Desk Magnetic Contributor

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    It's a double edged sword, the City of London Corporation is the Crown Jewels of the country's economy, we would fail without it, and it couldn't be successful without those practices. The general feeling is that it doesn't have to play by 'the rules' because it invented it's own. Again, you can see why a break from increasing European legislation would be 'preferrable'

    No-one is clear when the 'The City' came into existence as a trading entity seperate from a location, but it is acknowledged in documents as far back as 1067. You'll also notice it's a Corporation, which very much limits liability of legal recourse to it's employees.

    Interesting also to note that the City of London Police is effectively private and paid for by the Corporation.
     
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  2. mbardu

    mbardu SS.org Regular

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    lmao, it's not a "double edged sword", it's just tolerating or even encouraging unethical and illegal activity for the profit of a select few. Or are we also believing in "trickle down" economics in the UK now?
     
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  3. Lozek

    Lozek Desk Magnetic Contributor

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    That's my point, it's not the few. Pragmatically, I live in a nation that moved away from the manufacturing sector decades ago in favour of financial products/services and if the city were to fail then it would be the people who bore the brunt of economic collapse. So I don't want it to fail, the most I can hope for is reform without too much damage to productivity.
     
  4. mbardu

    mbardu SS.org Regular

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    This is if we truly believe that there is no alternative and that the unethical stuff is necessary to avoid a collapse that would impact mostly regular people. Those many people, not few, who indeed have decent quality of life today. And maybe that's the case.
    But the other point of view is that there are alternatives under which the system would be more ethical, and yet still more beneficial to the many regular folks. And maybe it's just that the ones benefiting tremendously from the system as it is today are also the the ones with the power to push that notion that regular folks would have a terrible price to pay for a just and ethical system...

    Anyway, it goes a bit beyond that notion, I'm just concerned with the direction the UK is taking in general (the above, plus the NHS trend, fear for consumer protection standards etc)- but even that is only second hand information on my part through family living in London so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  5. Flappydoodle

    Flappydoodle SS.org Regular

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    Well this is simply nonsense

    Trump is most likely going to be voted out in a couple months. And he hasn’t tried to poison Biden yet.

    And the UK had an election recently where Boris won by miles. He’s still popular and the UK will have another free and fair election when it is due in 2024. He might win again or he might lose. There’s absolutely nothing remotely ‘Russian-style’ about it.
     
  6. Flappydoodle

    Flappydoodle SS.org Regular

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    I think lumping people under ‘brown’ as a strawman attack based on a stereotype of Brexit supporters is a mistake.

    UK has lots of Indians, and most people don’t have a problem with them. Even the stereotypically xenophobic grandparents don’t mind Indians. They are well integrated and are at almost every level of society - from cleaners to doctors and leading politicians. Marriage between Indian and white British people isn’t uncommon. They go to footballs matches and pubs and get drunk - what’s not to love!

    Pakistanis are seen as more problematic, mostly because they are Muslim and therefore are less interested in integrating. They eat Halal food and they don’t drink alcohol, which makes it more difficult to be part of a group. They don’t do sex before marriage, and they almost always marry within their own circle. So that makes integration with the wider public more difficult. But even then, Pakistanis are generally seen as accepted in the UK, again occupying all levels of society. Though the xenophobic grandparents will mutter, they’re still accepted.

    What really tipped it for Brexit was the refugee crisis with millions of mostly impoverished and mostly uneducated people flooding into Europe. There were Syrians but also a whole bunch of Africans, Iraqis, Afghanis and all sorts mixed in there. In the UK it was seen as insane that some countries in the EU were welcoming them with open arms, and others were not. Greece and Italy had literally boatloads of people washing up on the beach next to sunbathers. Meanwhile, Germany was telling them to come. This was a major dysfunction of the EU.

    To make it worse, due to EU rules, once they were settled in the EU they would have freedom of movement to go to any other country. The fear was that Germany may be welcoming them, but eventually they were going to make their way to the UK - due to more generous welfare, NHS, English-speaking etc. The whole thing was handled terribly, with terrorists potentially mixed in with genuine refugees, very poor attempts at identifying people, unclear rules about who would be accepted or why. There were huge camps along borders, riots at detention/processing facilities etc. That was all happening in early 2016 and it was a big reason for Brexit.

    Lastly, immigration has been an issue in the UK for years leading up to this. In 1997, Tony Blair talked about immigration from Europe in the 10,000’s range. But it ended up being more than 10x that amount in a single year. At that people, people WERE xenophobic against Polish people (Who are white, mostly Christian and love drinking even more than we do!) Even subsequent Conservative governments had totally failed to reduce immigration numbers. So there is a historic distrust of the UK government when it comes to immigration. Leaving the EU was sold as a way to finally take back control.

    Anyway, the whole thing is much more nuanced than simply hating brown people in general.
     
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  7. Flappydoodle

    Flappydoodle SS.org Regular

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    Well, that depends. I agree on the surface that generally we are less willing to work like crazy. But if you think about it - what’s wrong with expecting a decent salary and not working yourself silly? I would actually say it’s unfair to force people to compete with immigrants from 3rd world countries. If the immigrants are willing to share a house with 6 other guys, sleep on the floor, work 16 hour days, sending all their money home - how is a person grounded with a mortgage, children, expenses etc supposed to compete? No wonder there’s resentment.

    You could actually blame the politicians and business leaders for many things which allowed this to happen:

    1. Too generous welfare state that makes benefits more enticing than work. It should almost never be the case that you are better off not working. As you said, if there are infilled vacancies and people are choosing not to take them - that’s a broken system.

    2. Allowing too much freedom of movement. Companies can import cheap labour, keeping their profits higher That’s good for them, but terrible for their domestic employees. Seems ridiculous to me to import lots of foreigners to pick fruit when there are plenty of chavs sitting around bus stops. Government has allowed this to happen.

    3. Not encouraging people to become nurses etc. Nurse salaries and conditions should be better. Their student loan conditions should be better. Domestic students should be encouraged and prioritised. None of that is impossible.

    4. Prioritising company profits over the well-being of British people. Not legislating companies to take working conditions, salaries etc seriously. If your employees are sleeping on the floor etc, that shouldn’t be acceptable.

    This is why you’re seeing right wing people talking about ending globalism, ‘America first’ etc. And the left wing blame the evil corporations. They both have fair points, but of course, it’s likely that their party has also done absolutely nothing to seriously address the problems.
     
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  8. Merrekof

    Merrekof SS.org Regular

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    There is nothing wrong with wanting a good paying, easy job but be realistic and don't be a bitch when you miss out on a rare job oppertunity like that. There's a 100 people in line waiting for that easy job while many sectors are struggling to find people.
    A friend of mine works with a road building company. He complained the other day that they have a truck to spare because they are heavily understaffed. Ads in local newspapers got them literally 0 replies. Not even one phone call.

    1. There are people here in Belgium who are better off staying at home than go to work.
    My mother-in-law came from Lebanon, fled the civil war there with her family and came to Europe for a better life. Even she is complaining that refugees here are getting too much. A free appartement, 500€ cash to spend, free docters, free lawyers, free daycare for young children,... this only helps right wing parties getting more votes.

    2. In theory, this is great. When labour abroad is so cheap that you get your dirty chures done for a little bit of money. In real life, not everybody here has a good paying job.

    3. Yes, those professions should get more temporary advantages. Luckily, we don't really have student loans here. Generally speaking, getting a higher degree is affortable for every parent to give their children. Not saying it is easy for everyone to afford but it's nowhere near as bad as the good ol' US of A!

    4. Isn't that in every capitalist nation? :)
     
  9. cip 123

    cip 123 Vendor

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    I think the main point is that the government are in it for themselves.


    Which is true of every major political power in the world, they want money and power.


    Russia are just a bit more brazen about it than most countries. But the definition of kleptocracy can certainly be applied to most governments. Heck even my local council was caught using tax funds for personal purchases.
     
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  10. Merrekof

    Merrekof SS.org Regular

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    Who knows. Honestly, I was downright shocked and surprised that he actually got elected as president in the first place. Common sense tells me he'll lose the election. But four years ago, common sense also told me that he didn't stand a chance and look what happened :lol:
     
  11. jephjacques

    jephjacques BUTTS LOL

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    Trump is going to be voted out and declare the election invalid and then who KNOWS what's going to happen. The US is a shitshow. And if you can't see how the ultra-wealthy have utterly undermined democracy to further enrich themselves, I don't know what to tell you other than get your eyes checked.
     
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  12. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

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    I think he's going to win.
     
  13. Louis Cypher

    Louis Cypher SS.org Regular

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    If Trump does win but its anything other than a landslide for him he will still claim it was only close due to Democrate voter fraud. He and the Republicans/Fox News have spent most of this year laying that ground work over Postal voting inparticular being fraudulent. I also read he told a rally recently he was gonna try and change the law so he could run for a 3rd term.....

    www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/09/13/trump-says-he-will-negotiate-third-term-because-hes-entitled-to-it/amp/
     
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  14. IbanezDaemon

    IbanezDaemon Raptus regaliter

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    Brexit? Covid-19 says....hold my beer! ;-)
     
  15. Masoo2

    Masoo2 SS.org Regular

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    This is what pisses me off so much and has me genuinely wanting to leave the country when the opportunity arises. You have such a large portion of the population who has been brainwashed by right wing corporate interests into believing that it's okay if not good for the President to continuously discredit and delegitimize the institutions which the country and basic life operates on. He'll claim the postal service is bad (while not mentioning that his postermaster general has millions invested in competing private package delivery companies) and his supporters will say "yeah, they were a day late that one time or had my package go missing for a week that other time years ago, f*ck them!" The same is then applied to stuff like Medicare and Social Security which he has been planning to cut through a reduction in payroll taxes, to which his (able bodied, non-retired) supports will say "why should I be paying for this when it doesn't benefit me? f*ck them!" without realizing that their parents rely on social security to get food and their friend with a notable disability relies on Medicare to help cover needed medicine and treatment. I've noticed many of the same attitudes being applied to broader institutions like NATO and the United Nations, many of which our country pioneered the development of in the postwar era. But no, those globalist powers are evil and trying to destroy America, but make sure to not show no concern for Russian interference which is totally not real even though the Senate Intelligence Committee released a 1000 page document detailing it but that won't be believed either because the right wing has fostered a distrust in politicians. How they convinced rural working class people to believe that a corporate Democrat draft dodger with countless lawsuits and sexual assault claims against his name is the "President for the people" because of his track record of not being in politics is beyond me.

    That's the danger here. Slowly but surely every single service that in any way actually helps the majority of people (working class, non-wealthy, generally no higher education) will be eroded and privatized, allowing a new generation of oligarchical billionaires to take foot similar to the rise of Bezoses of the 00s and 10s.

    And don't get me even started on the whole third term thing.

    Fox News, Breitbart, Epoch Times, PragerU, Turning Point USA, The Blaze, One American News Network, and other propaganda outlets will be the downfall of the lower and middle class in this country through building off of the foundations left by adminstrations of yesteryear like Reagan and his famous "Reaganomics" which never delivered on it's promises of trickling down wealth. They radicalize these people who feel left behind socioeconomically into believing that corporate oligarchs will be their saviors who will someone "bring back rural America" to it's "glory" of the post-war era. Yet that's not feasible and has been shown time and time again with false promises of bringing back mining and factory jobs to regions which they once thrived. You cannot force the creation of jobs in a region that has no value to be extracted. If anything, there needs to be social programs enacted to get these people out of Appalachia, the rust belt, etc and into job training and educational programs in more developed areas. As a response, these media organizations teach their viewers that it's not the ones in power and control of the money who have ruined their lives, but rather their neighbors down the street who have a different skin color or those "libruhlz" (the Republican Party is a liberal party but they can't understand that) in coastal cities or "antifa" who is "burning down cities across the country." They've mastered the art of diversion as a means of developing xenophobia and instill a false sense of fear into what might as well be called white rural/suburban America.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  16. jephjacques

    jephjacques BUTTS LOL

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    nothing would surprise me at this point :(
     
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  17. Flappydoodle

    Flappydoodle SS.org Regular

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    Agree with you. It's ridiculous that a company can not find people to work (assuming they are offering a liveable salary etc)

    As for 4 - kinda, but it's still the least murderous and evil of the government ideologies we have tried, haha
     
  18. Flappydoodle

    Flappydoodle SS.org Regular

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    Hmm, I think you're being VERY generous to the intelligence communities and institutions here

    The FBI, CIA, NSA, State Department etc have extremely dodgy track records. Everything from spying on your emails, to fostering coups, to human experimentation on your own citizens. To unequivocally say that they are helping normal people is a falsehood. Same goes for MI5/MI6 if you're in the UK.

    And many of the criticisms levelled against international institutions are fair too. NATO has generally worked in America's favour in the past, especially as a counter-balance to Russia. But European "allies" have definitely been skimping on their side of the deal in more recent years. Only 3 of 27 countries spend the recommended amount. Instead, they are opting to spend on social programs and things to benefit their citizens more directly. That's their decision to make, but at the same time they still expect the US to protect them, and complain when the US asks them to spend more or asks them to make sacrifices. For the American taxpayer, it means their money is used to defend Germany, so Germany can spend money on healthcare and pensions. That definitely doesn't seem fair. You can argue that the US benefits by still having global reach/influence etc, but I also think it's fair that massive European economies and wealthy countries should contribute more.

    Same goes for the UN. Many aspects of it really are a joke. As a forum for democratic debate between nations, it served the purpose. But now the organisation has become explicitly political, has expanded to interfere in domestic affairs, is getting into social justice etc. Personally, I think a lot of that is overreach.
     
  19. Andromalia

    Andromalia Pardon my french

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    Uh, the economic collapse already happened, it's called Thatcherism. The City is all that's left in a field of ruins, not the proud speahead of an economy.
    Besides, at the rate we're going, the city will very soon be very busy trading with itself because the access to EU markets will be closed.

    The one thing a lot of people fail to understand is that on the continent, there was an old exasperation with Britain, always a brake to progress, and we couldn't kick them out. When the UK fucked up and kicked itself out, a good chunk of peopl ewere very happy about it, me included.
    I'll reiterate that I have nothing against UK nationals, really, but they have a tendency to elect [REDACTED]s that got annoying over time. There is, for exemple, a consensus that were the UK still a member, the agreement on the stimulus package for COVID would never have been reached.

    They do. But up to some point, they had the good grace to be decently good at their job and out of the public view. With the Age of Information, they can't hide their activities as well as they could before. With the tech we have, even I would be more efficient and useful than a professional intelligence agent 40 years ago. Just think about a simple YT video for propaganda, and what it required to reach that many people decades ago.
     
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  20. Merrekof

    Merrekof SS.org Regular

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    Don't forget about the Stasi back in the day. (East-German intelligence agency)
    They had an enormous amount of spies tapping phones, hiding mics in houses and shadowing people to know where they have been and with whom they've been talking.
    These days people do the spying themselves by buying smartphones! The Stasi would be living a dream with all this tech.
     
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