Blackmachine B7 custom copy (chinese)

Discussion in 'Beginners/FAQ' started by Kronikary, Aug 22, 2016.

  1. Kronikary

    Kronikary SS.org Regular

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    There is only one scarf joint where the darker wood stops
     
  2. Drew

    Drew Forum MVP

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    Looks like the "darker wood" stops well BEFORE the scarf joint, though. Can you tell if there's any distinct seam there, or changes in the grain? A better closeup might help, but it doesn't look like there is.

    The neck joint looks pretty sketchy to me, and the fretwork looks REALLY rough. Also, the input jack would make it EXCEPTIONALLY hard to use this guitar with a strap.

    Still, it's a, what, $400 chinese guitar, with a pretty photoflame/ultra-thin laminate burl top? I guess you have to keep your expectations reasonable here. I'd rather a used 7321 for the price, though.

    Any full body pics? Something of the whole guitar, front and back?
     
  3. Shredasaurus

    Shredasaurus deathcore!!!

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    That neck lookin like a 2x4 lol you should post a video of you playing it so we can hear hngd tho
     
  4. SlamLiguez

    SlamLiguez Voidist

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    HNGD, but when I saw that jack placement I burst into laughter.
     
  5. A-Branger

    A-Branger SS.org Regular

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    congrats and HNGD

    shame about the painted neck, but Ive never seen chinese guitars with multi-laminated neck before. That is painted. You can clearly see the scarf joint further up. There is one close up photo in the dropbox folder. That was just back luck, they tried to replicate the photo you sent. Thats one of the issues with chinese copies, You have to CLEARLY explain everything you want 3 times

    I was about to buy one years ago, I did all the research I could, I even joined a dediated forum for these kinds of guitars, and this is what I learnt:
    -Chinese are really good to copy main brands (Gibson, fender, some prs??), the more un-conventional shape, the higher the chances for you to get a bad copy made
    -Its a rusian roulette game out there if you dont know a good seller. There are factories, and there are sellers. You need to find is which one is the direct factory and try to avoid the re-sellers. Only very few of them would make a good accurate build and few would do it good to your specs if you want to go custom
    -Stores change names all the times, so the one you knew it was good, might be know by a different e-store name now
    -If you gonna go custom, then try to explain things clearly and ask for photos
    -For the love of God, order the guitar with NO brand, or get a custom name on the headstock
    -And lastly, approach these as "pre-assembled kit guitars", meaning, the chances are you would need to change pickups, electronics, and do some extra work on the nut/frets
     
  6. farren

    farren SS.org Regular

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    That's the sort of guitar you gig with and people think you are a pro... Except for the savvy guitarists up against the stage who feel kind of bad for you.

    But really, I imagine it would get the job done live with some decent pickups installed in it, and you wouldn't have to care if another hammer came flying at the neck in the middle of a show to mangle another fret.

    Seriously, that fret, it's really bothering me... You're going to have to have it pulled and replaced. Please.
     
  7. Xaios

    Xaios Foolish Mortal Contributor

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    Regardless of whether or not the laminations are painted, why on earth would any guitar need a volute, scarf joint AND a laminate neck. Those all serve the same purpose, but usually two out of three is quite sufficient.
     
  8. FrznTek

    FrznTek SS.org Regular

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    the list of things I would do to it...
    1. paint the pickup cavities a mate black (conductive shielding paint preferably)
    2. buy covered pickups for it to help fill up the pickup cavity. (or.... pickup rings)
    3. take it to a pro and have that fret replaced, and have a fret leveling/polishing done.
    4. replace all other electronics as well.
    5. good locking tuners, and maybe a Hipshot bridge.

    but in the end as some have already said... If you like it, that's all the really matters.
     
  9. Psionic

    Psionic three headed monkey

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    congrats on the new Guitar. for a 400$ Guitar it looks pretty nice.

    Dont know whats all the bitching about if he likes it and at that price with ss-frets it sounds like a good deal for a guitar you dont have to worry about damaging.

    Ofc only if it works properly but as it seems it does.
     
  10. canuck brian

    canuck brian Bowes Guitars Contributor

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    The Blackmachine homepage must be a hoot.
     
  11. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Look more closely - those are not ss frets. That seems to be what has everybody talking about the guitar, that the specs are not real. And for the record I have no issue with a photo-top on a $350 guitar. It's stuff like the painted "laminations" in the neck, the fake ss frets (ss frets are not soft enough to deform as pictured), the weird design changes (jack placement), and the poor workmanship (binding, scarf joint, pickup routes, etc) that are where it lost me.

    Of course, if the customer is happy, then it's all good for now. On the other hand, I can't build a nice guitar to save my life, but there are hundred, if not thousands, of other shops who could have done better than this.

    And I mean no ill will toward the OP. It's great that he was kind enough to post this guitar; however, I know no way to react to such a thread without saying something negative about the guitar. As an analogy, if I had someone in another nation build me a replica of a Dodge Viper, and I took a bunch of photos of it and posted it on a car website, I would fully expect people to point out the fact that the engine was not a real 12 cylinder engine, but rather a 6 with the facade of another 6 cylinders attached, or that the frame was made of plastic spraypainted metallic, etc. And that's exactly analogous to how this guitar is photographed in relation to the specs.
     
  12. Psionic

    Psionic three headed monkey

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    I totally get you there.
    Took a look at the pictures and the fret dosent look like that happened because of pressure rather looks scratched but then you may be right too they arent ss frets.
    Would be a wonder on this price lvl i guess.

    The blackmachine design is being used by many companies now so i dont get the car comparison if its only for the headstock.

    Maybe the features are fake i wouldnt expect them on a guitar in that price range anyways and its what to be expected when you order from china.
    I think it wouldnt even make a difference if the neck would be real 5piece given to the quality of wood they would use.

    I just think its ok for what it is a fancy looking beater you pay for the looks...

    Its pretty obvious it isnt a meant to be a high end instrument.(if this makes any sense :D)
     
  13. Kronikary

    Kronikary SS.org Regular

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    The neck and the headstock looks like to be 2 different woods but the same type.

    I asked Kevin to make the neck joint smoother. I don't feel he did it. Maybe I was little late with that change. I asked for that in the middle of the production.

    Full body pics are on my dropbox (link in the first post)

    I don't have good recording system so I don't think there is any sense of that.

    As I said the contact with the seller was great. I've got like 7 pages with messeges to Kevin. I send him a lot of pictures and he warned me that he can't make the same looking guitar (that's even better) as in the picutres.

    I don't think that savvy guitarists with only look can tell that's china made guitar ;) I'm interested in what would be yours reaction if i didn't say that guitar comes from China :p

    I don't need to change the fret becouse there is no buzzing and any problems.

    2. I will buy ring and place it.... soon
    3. I don't have to replace the fret but I will polish them. There is no need to level them
    5. For now I'm fine with that. I will change that when I get more money. First - pickup change.

    I will ask my teacher about the frets. Personally I feel that they might be SS becouse all the binding, slides are easier to do.
    And at all I just hope I wasn't lied by the Kevin about SS.


    Yes it can't be. But do I really need the guitar for XXXX$? I'm not pro and I'm still learing. I needed 7 string guitar. I didn't want to have casual black Jackson, Ibanez, Schecter. That's why ordered this copy.



    And overall don't understand me bad. I'm not defending Kevin and mistakes. But when I ordered this I expected to change everything after unboxing. I was suprised becouse I needed only to set the bridge and tune it.
    Just in the scale of the guitars from China where some are bad, some are good, this B7 is great. At this point Kevin Shi got 10/10 from me.
     
  14. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    According to Warmoth, SS frets are made of 403 Grade Stainless Steel. Normal frets, even though they are called "nickel silver" or "nickel steel," are actually an alloy of copper, nickel and zinc (they are more accurately described as a sort of white brass), which is why they are so easily machined, and contain neither silver nor iron (thus "nickel steel" is a misnomer, and "nickel silver" is highly misleading). In fact, decorative "gold frets" are simply a different bronze or brass alloys in which the copper is enough to contribute some colour.

    So......

    403 grade stainless is a weakly ferromagnetic metal. A magnet should respond to the frets. I will test this later, but I would imagine the pull with a SmCoFe or NdFeB magnet should be quite noticeable, where as "nickel silver" frets should have a much much weaker pull, which I do not expect to be noticeable.

    Until now, I had no idea which grade of stainless was used. I guess I never thought to try a magnet, since most grades of stainless steel are so weakly magnetic that you can't really tell anything is happening when you hold a magnet to them.

    One thing I have noticed as pretty striking, though, is the smell. SS frets smell like nothing to me, totally neutral, while nickel frets smell like coins to me.

    The other obvious thing would be harness, SS frets should be much harder than nickel frets, which is the initial reason I called this into question. SS frets should be hard enough to maintain their shape. In fact, 403 Stainless is harder than steel wool, so any attempt at polishing with steel wool is useless.

    A little internet research shows lots of SS fret guitars coming from China that use some unknown metal - grayer than ss frets from the west, and softer. There is a good chance that the fretwire is manufactured somewhere in China or just outside of China and made of some other alloy.
     
  15. Fraz666

    Fraz666 SS.org Regular

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    I know what you mean because I thought the same, I bought a fake Mayones on aliexpress.
    But then I realized that would not be so cool to play live with a fake, and people would have noticed from the photos, so it was easy to cancel the order because in the first pictures they sent me the color was different from the original image.
    For a slightly higher price I got a good looking original Ibanez, colorful and far from the 'boring black': surely it is better built​​ and will have a higher value as used.
    For me, the chinese fake make sense when they're extremely cheap.

    Anyway, the important is that you fell good with it, so HNGD!
     
  16. Kronikary

    Kronikary SS.org Regular

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    I thought about ordering Mayones copy but then I realized I live in Poland so guitarists would kill me :D (Mayones is polish brand).
    I spoke to a lot of sellers before I ordered and I get a lot of pictures. Mayones copy looked really bad and poor.
     
  17. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Where'd your video go? I thought you posted a demo. :scratch: Was the demo of the guitar being played or was it a recording dubbed over or something else?

    Anyway, I still think the top and the headstock look really cool. It seems the guitar is in working order to your expectations, so it probably doesn't matter which materials were used.

    :yesway:
     
  18. Señor Voorhees

    Señor Voorhees SS.org Regular

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    All I'm gonna say is that I've got a Kiesel Vader with SS frets that's a year and a half old and the frets are still shiny/new. I've never cleaned them, polished them, leveled them, etc. I have played the thing extensively, and I only replaced the strings twice... Once immediately after receiving it, and once like two days ago. (I'm cheap, god damn it.) If they weren't stainless, they would show some form of wear.

    The frets on this guitar are tarnished, and not a nice shiny silver... They're not SS frets. Any "better feel" you're noticing is either all in your head, or will fade with time. Any of the close up shots of the frets show some degree of tarnish, which is evidence to them not being SS.

    As for the painted laminates, they are indeed painted.

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/74f3afuj...JvaYKkxIQx1a?dl=0&preview=20160822_181619.jpg

    You can see where the painted stripes end and where the scarf joint begins much more clearly in this picture.

    Not sure what's so hard to understand. A chinese guy making fraudulent copies of guitars using stolen designs and brand names, lied to you. Honestly, it shouldn't be a big deal. You expect cheap crap when you buy these things, and you always take a gamble on if they turn out right. I always advise against them because you never know, regardless of how "nice" the seller is, how the guitar will turn out. You seemed to have lucked out and received a decently playable guitar with some relatively minor issues. The bridge is mounted straight, the pickup cavities aren't all cattywampus, and you say there's no dead spots or buzzing.

    Aside from the jack placement, it all looks relatively acceptable. The biggest part is, does it sound good? Does it play/feel good? Do you think it looks good? You're obviously happy with the purchase, though everyone usually is during the honeymoon phase. Provided you're not just lying to yourself and there really are no dead spots/buzzing/acceptable action, it does sound good, and you're willing to overlook that you've been lied to about the laminate and SS frets, I say this is a win for you.

    Congrats, and I hope the guitar treats you well! It's always good when you role the dice and come out on top!

    Nah, the strap buttons aren't placed right up against the jack like the copy is. Playing the copy with a strap might be difficult.
     
  19. Kronikary

    Kronikary SS.org Regular

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    Yea, I used the belt and I was afraid that the guitar will fall.

    Yea, I posted a video but I will send something... better ;)
     
  20. FrznTek

    FrznTek SS.org Regular

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    Well, if you buy new pickups they will likely come with rings. My concern with the fret isn't so much about buzz as it is about premature ware on the strings, as well as playability if you go to bend on that fret. (might also be like sandpaper to the affected string). I guess if you start braking the string('s) that are over the damage, you will at least know a likely reason why.

    as for the strap button placement issue, I suggest a Dimarzio Clip Lock strap.
    http://www.dimarzio.com/straps/cliplock/2-inch-nylon-cliplock
     

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